Cloud 45. Gaylord Raided......again

[mibrains]

Um, Mibrains,... the capitalist market doesn't work the way you think there aye.

 

In your theory of capitalism, Comcast shouldn't exist.  Heh.

Sorry mal

Cable is protected from those rules.

just like electricity and gas.

 

Let's not get sidelined on current government subsidies.

[beourbud]

 

 

What about if we allowed pt/cg's  to give away marijuana? Patients to have 2 caregvers or cg's to have ten patients?

 

Sounds very compassionate to me.

[mibrains]

And here is the real elephant in the room UNFORTINATELY:

 

At what cost? All these ideas around commercialism always come with a cost to patients and caregivers.

 

 At what cost?  How many more patients and caregiver arrests are ok as long as we get commercial pot?

None.

that's not the real issue here.

commercial pot is coming.

 

Rather we want it or not.

 

We are discussing today's enviroment and if a patient should or should not use a dispensary.

[+Malamute]

None.

that's not the real issue here.

commercial pot is coming.

 

Rather we want it or not.

 

We are discussing today's enviroment and if a patient should or should not use a dispensary.

 

 But it is the issue. It really is. 

 

 Like I give a crap about dispensaries.  I care about point A to Point B.

[beourbud]

What about if we allowed pt/cg's  to give away marijuana? Patients to have 2 caregvers or cg's to have ten patients?

Standing by for mibrains response

[mibrains]

You might make the same argument for a crack house.

It's All about the money.

Did you really say that?

 

A Crack house is driven by addiction.

 

Do you really want to compare cannabis dispensaries to Crack houses?

[+Malamute]

Standing by for mibrains response

 

He said compassionate. Keep up.

 

;-p

 

p.s. oh you said compassionate.

 

I am blind and dumb.

[mibrains]

But it is the issue. It really is. 

 

 Like I give a crap about dispensaries.  I care about point A to Point B.

What do you mean?

 

What do you know that your not expressing here?

 

Point a to point b?

 

Right now as we discuss this registered patients are going to dispensaries.

 

They are procuring cannabis.

 

It is safe.

it is legal....for them..

They have the choice.

[+Malamute]

Is it safe?

[mibrains]

He said compassionate. Keep up.

 

;-p

 

p.s. oh you said compassionate.

 

I am blind and dumb.

Standing by for mibrains response

I did.

I gave away cannabis for several years.

I made up for it at the farmers markets.

 

The supreme court put an end to that.

 

If anyone can explain how a caregiver can afford to give away cannabis in today's current enviroment i am willing to listen.

[mibrains]

Is it safe?

Yes.

Absolutly for the patient.

[garyfisher]

Cloud 45 is reopening this saturday!

[beourbud]

I did.

I gave away cannabis for several years.

I made up for it at the farmers markets.

The supreme court put an end to that.

If anyone can explain how a caregiver can afford to give away cannabis in today's current enviroment i am willing to listen.

What an evasive , deceptive response .

 

I can explain how a caregiver can Happily Give Away Meds, Outdoor Grows.

 

Even better pt/pt and CG/CG would make meds for the folk who need it the most...Free

 

If you Care about the patient get rid of parasitic dispensaries and Free the Weed

Edited April 22, 2016 by beourbud

[beourbud]

Cloud 45 is reopening this saturday!

New name, same game, no shame..

[mibrains]

What an evasive , deceptive response .

I can explain how a caregiver can Happily Give Away Meds, Outdoor Grows.

Even better pt/pt and CG/CG would make meds for the folk who need it the most...Free

If you Care about the patient get rid of parasitic dispensaries and Free the Weed

Ok

then do so.

explain how a Caregiver can give away cannabis.

 

Deceptive response..your reaching bud.

 

Please explain in detail for any person who reads this how someone can grow a plant for someone else for free.

 

Outside at low cost as you describe... with or without a topside... every gram still costs something to produce.

 

If you give it away for free you must have another outlet to be able to offer it up.

[mibrains]

I think it is obvious that if there were no criminal penalties at all associated with cannabis, many many people would be receiving free marijuana.

H e l l yes

 

Tomorrow's rules can breed eternal health for all cannabis users.

 

What about today?

 

Right now?

 

Toniht.

 

If your diagnosed with a terminal disease that cannabis can help.

 

Would you use a dispensary?

would you use a caregiver?

 

Wouldn't you use any one or anything that might help?

 

In all my previous responses I am asking the questions I feel a cannabis patient wants or needs to know.

 

I am not grand standing

I have no hidden agendas

I am not representing or represented by anyone.

 

I had a thought when I was driving home and I want to discuss it.

 

That's all

 

Where does the new cannabis patient go to figure out what works?

 

Couple years ago u would have said a compassion club

 

What about today?

 

They are getting their information wherever they can find it.

 

Dispensaries have their place in our world.

 

They need to be dialed in and well regulated but they are needed.

[Smallbiz]

I like dispos I only go maybe once a year maybe if I need to, I grow my own. But they really helped me out at first, the "CG" thing only set me back more work dealing with somebody that wants to sell out of the trunk of ther car, and all the wait is not realistic. Just my opinion I know yours is different for different reasons.????

[trichcycler]

bad caregivers shine bad light on others, sorry for your negative cg xperiences.  We are not all like that, I promise.

 

tomatoes and apples are legal and nobody gives them away free at the end of the road, I wish they did, good nutrition is hard to come by and everyone knows about the crappy produce offered at the store. Sure i give free mj with every delivery, but I would not grow for, or meet strangers weekly if the provisions were free. perhaps my closest friends would not need to pay for their stash, but thats on a small scale freebie program, like the apple orchard guy does with his friends and family.

[trichcycler]

funny you mention.....I get tomato gifts from my postmaster!   she saves them for me. Secretly we both know.......she's counting on fine cannabis to be legal soon.....heck, she prollly knows all of my genetic diversity by now, mouth watering anticipation......

with enough family and friends you may be correct......removing the profit from the whole scene would not hurt anyone one bit.

Edited April 23, 2016 by grassmatch

[t-pain]

our entire country was formed on sharing food and farm culture, and the bounty of a good harvest.

 

we even have a national holiday for this.

its taught to every school child.

 

remember the only people against sharing are monopolies like the mpaa, riaa, etc.

everyone else learns sharing at a very young age. because sharing is caring. and if you share with me today, i'll share with you tomorrow. the cycle continues!

[bobandtorey]

I think it is obvious that if there were no criminal penalties at all associated with cannabis, many many people would be receiving free marijuana.

Thanks 

 

Sorry but the world i live in can not see that ever happening i do agree it's wishful thinking 

[phaquetoo]

WTF jim?

 

What are you talking about?

 

Dude why would you ever care if a dispensary is legal?

 

If it is or is not included in the written law?

 

If a patient can go there and procure their needed cannabis then why do you want to interfere with that relationship?

 

Why do you feel it's necessary to belittle those who use dispensaries?

 

I actually feel like Without even knowing it you are attacking patients rights.

 

Look man

 

If a patient wants to go to a dispensary...they are protected by law to do so.

 

Is the dispensary allowed to sell to them?

 

Nope

 

But THAT'S ON THEM.

 

it's not on the patient.

 

A PATIENT IS LEGALLY PROTECTED TO PROCURE CANNABIS FROM ANY SOURCE.

 

Period.

 

Who wants to argue that?

 

I'm not pickin on you jim...

 

I am just using your words to make a point.

 

You said I should remove myself from this discussion and I don't know why you would say that?

 

I went and actively participated in farmers markets...

 

Before it was court ordered not to do so...

 

Was I wrong?

 

Nope not in my opinion.

 

But we are not discussing the past...we are discussing the present.

 

Patients go to dispensaries.

 

Patients pay the money to acquire from that source.

 

Who are any of you to get in the way of that desicion?

 

My point is this.

 

If a PATIENT wants to use dispensaries than why does anyone else care?

 

It suits their needs...

That is what you got out of my reply to you?  I dont recall bad mouthing despense's,  I dont care one way or the other if we have them, I think I even gave a way I thought they could stay open or at least defend them selves in court!

 

You can pick on me john your not pick on proof! lmao

 

Wow touchy subject eh?

 

Maybe you have some regret going on!

 

Peace

[bobandtorey]

GAYLORD — Medical marijuana patients, caregivers and supporters have questioned and protested recent raids of Otsego County dispensaries, though law enforcement officials say they are only enforcing the law.

Lt. Derrick Carroll and Inspector Mike Hahn from the Michigan State Police 7th District in Gaylord hosted a press conference with local media at the 7th District Headquarters in Gaylord Thursday, explaining the raids of 10 medical marijuana dispensaries March 10, and an additional raid of another dispensary Tuesday, were the result of various violations of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.

“The Michigan State Police respects the rights of the caregivers and providers and patients of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, who operate legally under the act,” Carroll said. “Our focus is to stop the drug traffickers who are operating illegally under the guise and umbrella of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act and providing marijuana to those who are not eligible, or not their patients, or in excess of the amounts they are authorized to have.”

In addition, Carroll said the Michigan State Police and Straits Area Narcotics Enforcement (SANE) include in their focus those caregivers who he said have been trafficking waxes, oils and edibles which, he said, have never been allowed under state marijuana law.

Possession and sale of such forms of marijuana, in addition to selling to patients they are not registered to or selling to more than the five patients they are registered to, are primary reasons Carroll said the raids were executed.

Hahn said caregivers transferring marijuana to patients through cash transactions was another common element in the reasoning for the raids.

“They're not supposed to be charging for marijuana,” he said. “This (act) was supposed to be about compassion and pain management. This beckons the question, why do we have all these storefronts?”

Additional violations the officials said led to the law enforcement actions include possessing more marijuana than what is allowed under the law, including:

• 2 1/2 ounces per patient

• 12 plants per patient

• Five patients per caregiver

Caregivers can possess 2 1/2 ounces of marijuana and 12 plants for their own personal use.

Though these regulations may be included in the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, some argue there is a portion of the act that allows for such activities.

Bruce Block, a defense attorney from Grand Rapids, previously cited Section 8 of the act, “Affirmative Defense and Dismissal for Medical Marihuana.” Under this portion of the act, Block said there are no limitations on how much marijuana a caregiver or patient can possess, no restrictions on how they can grow marijuana and no limit on the number of registered caregivers a patient can have as long as the amount of marijuana involved is not “more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient’s serious or debilitating medical condition.”

As for caregivers dispensing marijuana to card-carrying patients who they are not registered to, Block said the law is not as clear.

Under the law, Block said the patient can obtain marijuana from the caregiver, even though the two are not connected, and the patient would be protected as long as the amount of marijuana does not exceed 2.5 ounces. It is unclear whether the transaction is legal for the caregiver, he said, and such a transaction would not be immune to prosecution, though they could cite Section 8 defenses.

This part of the act does not provide immunity from arrests, searches or prosecution, Block explained, though it was designed to protect caregivers and patients from a criminal conviction.

As for monetary transactions between patients and caregivers, and the legality of edibles, oils and waxes, or lack thereof, Block has some differing opinions.

In regard to Hahn's claim monetary transactions for medical marijuana are outlawed, Block disagreed.

“I don't know where they are getting that,” he said. “I've read the (Michigan Medical Marihuana Act) many, many times and I don't know where they are getting that from.”

When it comes to edibles, oils and waxes, Block said things get a bit more complicated.

Through a Court of Appeals decision, People v. Carruthers, Block said it was determined edibles, like brownies and cookies, were legal, as long as they were prepared using what is referred to as “usable marijuana,” or the leaves or bud of the plant. If those same edibles were made using a concentrated form of marijuana, like marijuana butter or oil, they would be illegal, as would be those oils, butters and other forms of concentrated marijuana, including waxes.

However, the use or possession of medical marijuana oils, butters and waxes could have protections under Section 8, Block said.

House Bill 4210, passed by the state House of Representatives and awaiting review by the state Senate Judiciary Committee, could clarify this part of the law. Block said, if passed, the law would allow for edibles up to a certain weight and define “usable marijuana” in solid, liquid and gaseous forms. For example, 16 ounces of a marijuana-infused product, like brownies, would equal 1 ounce of usable marijuana, while 7 ounces of a gaseous form would equal 1 ounce of usable marijuana, and 7 ounces in a liquid form would equal 1 ounce. This would allow patients to legally consume medical marijuana who would prefer it in a vapor, edible or liquid form.

Block cited other faults in the current medical marijuana law, including a lack of a ruling on whether dispensaries are legal or illegal.

Hahn agreed there is nothing in the law that really allows or outlaws such operations.

“(The act) doesn't really say,” he said. “If a person wants to operate such an establishment, they can do so if the marijuana is being dispensed by caregivers only to their five lawfully registered patients.”

He said there is no limit on the number of caregivers who can work at each dispensary.

Despite the different interpretations of the law among Block, those in the medical marijuana community and law enforcement, state police officials continue to argue there should be no confusion.

“The law, in its entirety, is very clear,” Carroll said. “In fact, no one has called us to get any clarification if there is any issues they perceive to be out there. Prosecutor Mike Rola has been very clear on this issue, the local courts have upheld the rulings.

“The law is very clear and should be followed. Anything above and beyond that is drug trafficking and will be dealt with.”

Block disagreed and said it is up to the state lawmakers to make the changes.

“It needs additional legislation, it needs to be clarified,” he said. “It's really disappointing that the Legislature of Michigan can't put in some simple fixes. It would not be that difficult.”

If it is not going to be clarified, Block said the law must at least be enforced in the same way throughout the state.

He said there are dozens of dispensaries in some of the urban areas of the state, like Detroit and surrounding areas, and he said he hasn't seen or heard of such law enforcement actions occurring there.

“It still strikes me that we are in the wild, wild West,” he said. “You're going to prosecute up in Gaylord, but how many dispensaries are in Detroit? And nobody is prosecuting them. The law is meant to be uniform. There needs to be uniformity and right now, what the law is depends on who is the sheriff.”

Carroll pointed to recent search warrants executed in Genesee County at various medical marijuana dispensaries, saying some of those urban dispensaries indeed are being prosecuted.

In light of what some see as an increased focused on the Otsego County medical marijuana dispensaries, at least over the past year, some in the medical marijuana community have further questioned whether law enforcement agencies are doing any work to limit the amount of drug activity involving methamphetamine, heroin and various prescription drugs.

According to statistics provided by Hahn, between Jan. 1 and March 31, various Michigan State Police agencies arrested 37 people on charges related to heroin and other prescription drug trafficking, with a total of 52 investigations, and he said they continue to look for such illegal activity.

He stressed he nor anyone at the police post in Gaylord have not received any calls from dispensary owners, caregivers or patients asking for clarifications to the law or for help to ensure they are operating legally.

Carroll said they have an open-door policy when it comes to offering this kind of assistance in assuring the legal operations of such establishments.

“There are many (patients and caregivers) operating well within the parameters set forth in the law, and it is those businesses who have nothing to worry about,” Carroll said. “If you are engaged in illegal drug trafficking and operating outside of the law, those are the only ones who need to be concerned.”

 

http://www.petoskeynews.com/gaylord/state-police-cite-various-violations-prompting-dispensary-raids/article_b190d634-0895-11e6-abfb-37b36848d7ac.html

 

Hope this helps

[phaquetoo]

I think it is obvious that if there were no criminal penalties at all associated with cannabis, many many people would be receiving free marijuana.

Many people in my group get free now, any one that knows me and is in need, I am there!  I dont have one friend who is in need of meds, I had one last weekend, I made sure to remedie that situation!  I have a friend with dibilitating arthritis and phsorisis to match, I ach every time I see him, I give him topical's, edibles' smokables and what ever I can to help him get thru his work day,,,,yea work day, he rufuses to quit working, Im very proud of him, I want to help him feel better in any way I can with mm and many concoctions!

 

Whats the saying?  A friend with weed is a friend indeed!

 

A friend helps a friend, a friend stands by a friend, a friend dont bad mouth friends to other friends/aquantance's.  A friend will be there 20 yrs later and accept you back into their life like you were never gone, I have a few of them!  Im pretty lucky, how many friends do most of you think you have?  I have a ton of aquantances, but I can count my friends on one hand, I can call any of them friends now and they will be there for me, They can call me and I will drop all and go to them!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

Did you really say that?

 

A Crack house is driven by addiction.

 

Do you really want to compare cannabis dispensaries to Crack houses?

A pharmacy is driven by addiction!