Cloud 45. Gaylord Raided......again

[phaquetoo]

I'd like to think that everybody has family or friends (at least when it comes to legal things...), but I guess everybody else would have to go to the dispensary.

 

I hope it is clear to most cannabis users by now that the prohibition is what creates the profit, but of course, it is not yet clear to some.

I would like to think every body has friends and family, or at least family, Unfortunatly I know to many people who are not blessed with family like I am, There were times in my life I dont think I would have made it w/o family!

 

The family structure has collapsed and it has no prejedice's, ,it is happening to white, black, yellow, christian, athieist, muslim, it has no boundry's!

 

If you have a good family count your blessings! and enjoy them while you still can!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

GAYLORD — Medical marijuana patients, caregivers and supporters have questioned and protested recent raids of Otsego County dispensaries, though law enforcement officials say they are only enforcing the law.

Lt. Derrick Carroll and Inspector Mike Hahn from the Michigan State Police 7th District in Gaylord hosted a press conference with local media at the 7th District Headquarters in Gaylord Thursday, explaining the raids of 10 medical marijuana dispensaries March 10, and an additional raid of another dispensary Tuesday, were the result of various violations of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.

“The Michigan State Police respects the rights of the caregivers and providers and patients of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, who operate legally under the act,” Carroll said. “Our focus is to stop the drug traffickers who are operating illegally under the guise and umbrella of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act and providing marijuana to those who are not eligible, or not their patients, or in excess of the amounts they are authorized to have.”

In addition, Carroll said the Michigan State Police and Straits Area Narcotics Enforcement (SANE) include in their focus those caregivers who he said have been trafficking waxes, oils and edibles which, he said, have never been allowed under state marijuana law.

Possession and sale of such forms of marijuana, in addition to selling to patients they are not registered to or selling to more than the five patients they are registered to, are primary reasons Carroll said the raids were executed.

Hahn said caregivers transferring marijuana to patients through cash transactions was another common element in the reasoning for the raids.

“They're not supposed to be charging for marijuana,” he said. “This (act) was supposed to be about compassion and pain management. This beckons the question, why do we have all these storefronts?”

Additional violations the officials said led to the law enforcement actions include possessing more marijuana than what is allowed under the law, including:

• 2 1/2 ounces per patient

• 12 plants per patient

• Five patients per caregiver

Caregivers can possess 2 1/2 ounces of marijuana and 12 plants for their own personal use.

Though these regulations may be included in the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act, some argue there is a portion of the act that allows for such activities.

Bruce Block, a defense attorney from Grand Rapids, previously cited Section 8 of the act, “Affirmative Defense and Dismissal for Medical Marihuana.” Under this portion of the act, Block said there are no limitations on how much marijuana a caregiver or patient can possess, no restrictions on how they can grow marijuana and no limit on the number of registered caregivers a patient can have as long as the amount of marijuana involved is not “more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient’s serious or debilitating medical condition.”

As for caregivers dispensing marijuana to card-carrying patients who they are not registered to, Block said the law is not as clear.

Under the law, Block said the patient can obtain marijuana from the caregiver, even though the two are not connected, and the patient would be protected as long as the amount of marijuana does not exceed 2.5 ounces. It is unclear whether the transaction is legal for the caregiver, he said, and such a transaction would not be immune to prosecution, though they could cite Section 8 defenses.

This part of the act does not provide immunity from arrests, searches or prosecution, Block explained, though it was designed to protect caregivers and patients from a criminal conviction.

As for monetary transactions between patients and caregivers, and the legality of edibles, oils and waxes, or lack thereof, Block has some differing opinions.

In regard to Hahn's claim monetary transactions for medical marijuana are outlawed, Block disagreed.

“I don't know where they are getting that,” he said. “I've read the (Michigan Medical Marihuana Act) many, many times and I don't know where they are getting that from.”

When it comes to edibles, oils and waxes, Block said things get a bit more complicated.

Through a Court of Appeals decision, People v. Carruthers, Block said it was determined edibles, like brownies and cookies, were legal, as long as they were prepared using what is referred to as “usable marijuana,” or the leaves or bud of the plant. If those same edibles were made using a concentrated form of marijuana, like marijuana butter or oil, they would be illegal, as would be those oils, butters and other forms of concentrated marijuana, including waxes.

However, the use or possession of medical marijuana oils, butters and waxes could have protections under Section 8, Block said.

House Bill 4210, passed by the state House of Representatives and awaiting review by the state Senate Judiciary Committee, could clarify this part of the law. Block said, if passed, the law would allow for edibles up to a certain weight and define “usable marijuana” in solid, liquid and gaseous forms. For example, 16 ounces of a marijuana-infused product, like brownies, would equal 1 ounce of usable marijuana, while 7 ounces of a gaseous form would equal 1 ounce of usable marijuana, and 7 ounces in a liquid form would equal 1 ounce. This would allow patients to legally consume medical marijuana who would prefer it in a vapor, edible or liquid form.

Block cited other faults in the current medical marijuana law, including a lack of a ruling on whether dispensaries are legal or illegal.

Hahn agreed there is nothing in the law that really allows or outlaws such operations.

“(The act) doesn't really say,” he said. “If a person wants to operate such an establishment, they can do so if the marijuana is being dispensed by caregivers only to their five lawfully registered patients.”

He said there is no limit on the number of caregivers who can work at each dispensary.

Despite the different interpretations of the law among Block, those in the medical marijuana community and law enforcement, state police officials continue to argue there should be no confusion.

“The law, in its entirety, is very clear,” Carroll said. “In fact, no one has called us to get any clarification if there is any issues they perceive to be out there. Prosecutor Mike Rola has been very clear on this issue, the local courts have upheld the rulings.

“The law is very clear and should be followed. Anything above and beyond that is drug trafficking and will be dealt with.”

Block disagreed and said it is up to the state lawmakers to make the changes.

“It needs additional legislation, it needs to be clarified,” he said. “It's really disappointing that the Legislature of Michigan can't put in some simple fixes. It would not be that difficult.”

If it is not going to be clarified, Block said the law must at least be enforced in the same way throughout the state.

He said there are dozens of dispensaries in some of the urban areas of the state, like Detroit and surrounding areas, and he said he hasn't seen or heard of such law enforcement actions occurring there.

“It still strikes me that we are in the wild, wild West,” he said. “You're going to prosecute up in Gaylord, but how many dispensaries are in Detroit? And nobody is prosecuting them. The law is meant to be uniform. There needs to be uniformity and right now, what the law is depends on who is the sheriff.”

Carroll pointed to recent search warrants executed in Genesee County at various medical marijuana dispensaries, saying some of those urban dispensaries indeed are being prosecuted.

In light of what some see as an increased focused on the Otsego County medical marijuana dispensaries, at least over the past year, some in the medical marijuana community have further questioned whether law enforcement agencies are doing any work to limit the amount of drug activity involving methamphetamine, heroin and various prescription drugs.

According to statistics provided by Hahn, between Jan. 1 and March 31, various Michigan State Police agencies arrested 37 people on charges related to heroin and other prescription drug trafficking, with a total of 52 investigations, and he said they continue to look for such illegal activity.

He stressed he nor anyone at the police post in Gaylord have not received any calls from dispensary owners, caregivers or patients asking for clarifications to the law or for help to ensure they are operating legally.

Carroll said they have an open-door policy when it comes to offering this kind of assistance in assuring the legal operations of such establishments.

“There are many (patients and caregivers) operating well within the parameters set forth in the law, and it is those businesses who have nothing to worry about,” Carroll said. “If you are engaged in illegal drug trafficking and operating outside of the law, those are the only ones who need to be concerned.”

 

http://www.petoskeynews.com/gaylord/state-police-cite-various-violations-prompting-dispensary-raids/article_b190d634-0895-11e6-abfb-37b36848d7ac.html

 

Hope this helps

Wow seems I wrote the same thing in here the other day!  maybe they read my words! Bawahahahahahaha!

 

Peace

Edited April 23, 2016 by phaquetoo

[trichcycler]

will someone explain this focus on "gaseous form" of cannabis preparations? who makes this besides maybe sativex, if that qualifies as gaseous form.

 

will they patent their process? will it include extracting form cannabis? will they go after commercial producers of cannabis sprays?  mhmmm, grrr

[bobandtorey]

Many people in my group get free now, any one that knows me and is in need, I am there!  I dont have one friend who is in need of meds, I had one last weekend, I made sure to remedie that situation!  I have a friend with dibilitating arthritis and phsorisis to match, I ach every time I see him, I give him topical's, edibles' smokables and what ever I can to help him get thru his work day,,,,yea work day, he rufuses to quit working, Im very proud of him, I want to help him feel better in any way I can with mm and many concoctions!

 

Whats the saying?  A friend with weed is a friend indeed!

 

A friend helps a friend, a friend stands by a friend, a friend dont bad mouth friends to other friends/aquantance's.  A friend will be there 20 yrs later and accept you back into their life like you were never gone, I have a few of them!  Im pretty lucky, how many friends do most of you think you have?  I have a ton of aquantances, but I can count my friends on one hand, I can call any of them friends now and they will be there for me, They can call me and I will drop all and go to them!

 

Peace

 

 

Thank you Jim for all your good deeds

[bobandtorey]

Hahn agreed there is nothing in the law that really allows or outlaws such operations. 

 

I heard this in Court the other day from a judge 

 

Is their other things that our going on around here thats not in the Law  i just don't understand 

[bobandtorey]

will someone explain this focus on "gaseous form" of cannabis preparations? who makes this besides maybe sativex, if that qualifies as gaseous form.

 

will they patent their process? will it include extracting form cannabis? will they go after commercial producers of cannabis sprays?  mhmmm, gr

I agree i'm not one to give anyone an answers to anything Lansing comes up with other then Let A Judge Figure It Out thats the American way in todays world 

[Alphabob]

I wonder if it would be possible to go after the individuals who are misinforming LEO about the law, or the state for allowing LEO to abuse the law. They have the same BS excuses every time. Oh they had BHO and edibles… LEGAL. They sold marijuana for profit to a patient… LEGAL. Doesn’t it seem like they can ignore the law, and the resulting court rulings after we’ve spent all that money and energy? It is about time that we hold LEO liable for their actions, and to go after individuals who are purposely misrepresenting the law to line their own pockets. We should be able to sue the state for the damages it has inflicted, its failure to educate law enforcement/prosecutors and its refusal to correct any misunderstandings in the law.

 

1. The CoA stated that direct mixtures or preparations of the flower/leaves are allowed by the MMMA. Preparations starting from cannabutter for example are illegal, flower/leaves is not. So BHO is not illegal, edibles made from flower/leaves are not illegal…

 

2. Again the MSC already ruled that a profit can be made. Growing takes time, and time is money. In America we pay people for their work and efforts... this isn't China (except for our prisons).

 

There is zero legal grounds for these raids in many cases, just like all of the previous abuses the MMJ community has been forced to deal with. Nothing like going after the sick and poor, I guess they like easy targets… Maybe they are just cowards who are afraid to go after the real drug traffickers, the ones who commit violence and kill people. Why deal with violent criminals when you can rob law abiding citizens? Many of us know how LEO is assisting criminal organizations now so that they can later steal the profits from drug trafficking. Notice any similarity with how some dispensaries are approved locally and by LEO, just to be raided several months later? We need to fix or replace this criminal, commercialized gang. 

 

"The United States Supreme Court made it clear that training police personnel is a critical managerial responsibility with their ruling in Canton v. Ohio (1989).  The Court expanded this further in Monell v. Department of Social Services (1978) allowing municipalities to be sued for failing to train its officers."

Edited May 8, 2016 by Alphabob

[beourbud]

We the People voted to be able to grow our own or have someone help us with that thru the PT/CG. System.

 

If intent is important than we should not lose sight of that fact.

 

The intent was to allow a patient to grow His meds ,Out of Sight and Out of Reach, Not only in a closet or only in a Cage Outdoors.

 

Dispensaries are Illegal Commercial Criminal Enterprises, conspiring and collaborating to restrict if not eliminate the Home Grow and manipulate the MMMP thru various scams and dubious schemes.

 

Dispensaries hate Free Weed. And want to charge you up the azz

 

Shut em Down

 

The PT/ CG system works.

Edited April 23, 2016 by beourbud

[Wild Bill]

will someone explain this focus on "gaseous form" of cannabis preparations?

I believe it goes back to the beatnik days as in "Hey daddy-o this reefer is a gas!"

[+Malamute]

will someone explain this focus on "gaseous form" of cannabis preparations? who makes this besides maybe sativex, if that qualifies as gaseous form.

 

will they patent their process? will it include extracting form cannabis? will they go after commercial producers of cannabis sprays?  mhmmm, grrr

 

 Gaseous form is nonsense.

 

This was simply a moronic mistake that was written in a bill in Washington state.  Michigan lawmakers decided to copy that language from Washington state.  Thing is, Washington actually realized it didn't make any sense and removed it from their bill before actually passing the bill but for some reason(incompetence and ignorance) it is still referenced here in Michigan.

[Alphabob]

If a dispensary consists of registered caregivers who only provide medical marijuana to registered patients, they are not violating any laws. The 2008 ballot stated nothing about being connected to caregivers, it only stated that a registration system should exist and

 

“Permit registered individuals to grow limited amounts of marijuana for qualifying patients in an enclosed, locked facility.”

 

It was not the intent of the people or the MMMA to restrict caregiver transfers to connected individuals only.

 

MMMA section 4(e): “A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.”

 

If the only crime is the sale of a controlled substance from a registered caregiver to a registered patient, then they are wrong. The law specifically says that such actions shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances. There is no need for additional section 4 protection because they simply committed no crimes.

 

I have absolutely no affiliation with any dispensary, but I support the legit ones and wouldn't have medicine without them. I’m sure there’s many interest groups, some that want to conquer everything, some who want to help sick people and others who want to make a living. The problem is that many people are not breaking the law and having their lives ruined; and this is happening due to economic hardships forcing LEO to fund themselves through a no-oversight process.

 

If dispensaries are selling to non-cardholders, do not have registered caregivers as budtenders or violate some other law, then yes they are criminal enterprises; but not the legit ones.

[+Malamute]

First off, it doesn't matter what the ballot said, the ballot isn't the law.

 

Secondly, Everything must be taken in context.

 

Your argument is just faulty, has been said to be faulty by the people who actually wrote the law, and by the Michigan courts.

 

Dispensaries are not an exception to the CSA. 

 

The argument is found under section 8 honestly and section 8 doesn't make anything legal. It is a technicality basically to a crime committed.

 

Doesn't anyone remember all the advertising by MPP before the election in 2008 stating NO DISPENSARIES ALLOWED!

 

The people who actually wrote and passed the law say and said... NO DISPENSARIES ALLOWED UNDER THE LAW WE WROTE.

 

It is so straight forward it amazes me how people tie themselves in knots trying to explain how they are legal. 

[Alphabob]

The ballot says the same thing the MMMA does in regards to non-connected transfers. What I am arguing about transfers is not exclusive to dispensaries. The law was meant to allow non-connected transfers to any registered patient, otherwise out-of-state cardholders would not be allowed to get medicine. In fact, the MSC’s logic directly proves that section 4(e) is separate and unique from 4(b) since 4(b) already includes sales to connected patients. But the MSC case focused on civil aspects, not criminal; so the topic has not been fully explored, specifically section 4(e) which refers to controlled substance protections regardless of being connected.

 

The exception to the controlled substance law is transfers from registered caregivers to registered patients; it has no direct connection to the legality of actual dispensaries like those found in Colorado. There’s many different ways a caregiver could provide medicine to registered patients. If they want to open up a building, get several other caregivers to go in with them and sell exclusively to cardholders; what’s specifically wrong with that? What part of the law says this is illegal?

 

What the law does not allow for is ‘anyone’ to operate a building that dispenses medical marijuana, it does not allow for someone to grow as much marijuana as they want, it doesn’t allow patients to transfer to other patients, it does not allow for non-qualified patients to use marijuana, ect.

 

The ‘medical use’ of marijuana includes acquisition, possession, delivery, transfer and transportation; caregivers are allowed to participate in any activity covered by these. You can possess marijuana inside a building you own, you can transfer to registered patients, you can acquire to treat a registered patients condition(s); nothing goes against being able to dispense marijuana in a reasonable manner from privately owned buildings.

 

Furthermore, several cities have passed ordinances allowing actual dispensaries. Most of these were approved by LEO and the cities, just to be raided at a later time when breaking no real laws. The politicians do not want these drug task forces in their cities, raiding their dispensaries to fund their war on marijuana. Sure there are criminals out there that do not care about sick people and just want to make a buck, but this is exactly what these task forces and MSP are. For those who hate dispensaries because some are trying to get rid of homegrows, you shouldn't let hatred cloud your judgement. LEO is out of control and any of us could be targeted even if in compliance, like the tens of thousands who already have including myself. Some raids might be legit, but many are not and it needs to stop.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Alphabob

[+Malamute]

Everything in context.

 

Anyhow, don't believe me.

 

Here, actually call the group and the person who wrote the law and they will unequivocally tell you exactly what I said. I grow weary of telling people the obvious.

 

Karen O'Keefe

Phone: 323-568-1078
Fax: 202-552-0982
Email: kokeefe@mpp.org
 

[Alphabob]

Fine, I will contact Karen O'Keefe and ask if the law was meant to allow non-connected, registered caregiver to registered patient transfers; because this is the main complaint from law enforcement and prosecutors correct? If she says that such transfers are allowed, then again what specifically stops a caregiver from opening a private building to do exactly that if abiding by all other restrictions?

 

If she says that such transfers were not meant to be legal, then these people should never draft a bill again. Read and understand my arguments and it will make sense, the CoA and MSC rulings are quite complicated and often misapplied. The law definitely says that any registered caregiver can transfer to any registered patient and such transfer shall not constitute the sale of a controlled substance; but this is what they are being charged with, the sale of a controlled substance.

 

LEO is making up false violations like BHO/edibles, sales and non-connected transfers to go after dispensaries, because the only real legal ground they have to stand on are civil public nuisance claims.

[Jjamh]

Did you just wake up? They have already clarified that in their minds, the only legal transfer is from a caregiver to his 5 patients directly connected to him thru the registry. Yes this really sucks, that's what everyone is bitching about. By all means, if you have the cash, go take em on.

[t-pain]

mal, you should be recruiting members, not arguing with people on words

[Alphabob]

Yes, the prosecutors, LEO and media have incorrectly made up their minds about a lot of things, but that doesn’t make them correct. To these people, the ends justify the means. They form policy around what they want. If they want money they will take it. If they can make up some BS claim and send you to court they will do it. I remember back in the day before the MMMA when they would let people off with warnings when they got busted with possession or use. Now we have legit cardholders being charged with multiple bogus misdemeanors or felonies because they are at war with us; arrests are going up not down. The worst thing we can do is to go along with it, spread false information and promote their agenda. If we start educating people about what the law actually says, what the court rulings actually say, then maybe we have a chance. But right now there is no real justice, just a commercialized system that feeds off the citizens it was meant to protect.

 

So I'm fighting against the claims of BHO/edibles being illegal, that non-connected transfers are illegal, that illegal transport applies to cardholders and that caregivers can't receive financial reimbursement for assisting a registered patient (among many other BS claims). There's nothing in there specifically about dispensaries, but with these aspects a caregiver could operate a private building and sell to registered patients under certain circumstances. Call it a dispensary, a caregiver network, a private building just like the houses many sell out of... it doesn't matter. What's legal is legal, unless of course you live in an out of control police state.

 

BTW Karen is out until the 28th so I'll see if I can get a response sometime next week.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Alphabob

[trichcycler]

follow the money. when the drafters' ambiguity causes people to be raided, property to be confiscated, citizens to be jailed.......who gets the money?  cops steal, lawyers charge to attempt pseudo/sane explanations that often fail.

 

after seeing the windfall......c0ps and lawyers may be the next draft writers after this fiasco, if they already were not part of the mmmp

[bobandtorey]

I wonder if it would be possible to go after the individuals who are misinforming LEO about the law, or the state for allowing LEO to abuse the law. They have the same BS excuses every time. Oh they had BHO and edibles… LEGAL. They sold marijuana for profit to a patient… LEGAL. They sold to someone not connected through the registry system, but had a card… MMMA says LEGAL. Doesn’t it seem like they can ignore the law, and the resulting court rulings after we’ve spent all that money and energy? It is about time that we hold LEO liable for their actions, and to go after individuals who are purposely misrepresenting the law to line their own pockets. We should be able to sue the state for the damages it has inflicted, its failure to educate law enforcement/prosecutors and its refusal to correct any misunderstandings in the law.

 

1. The CoA stated that direct mixtures or preparations of the flower/leaves are allowed by the MMMA. Preparations starting from cannabutter for example are illegal, flower/leaves is not. So BHO is not illegal, edibles made from flower/leaves are not illegal…

 

2. Again the MSC already ruled that a profit can be made. Growing takes time, and time is money. In America we pay people for their work and efforts... this isn't China (except for our prisons).

 

3. The MMMA divides caregiver protections via section 4 into two parts. The first is in regards to connected patients, which allows 2.5 ounces and 12 plants per each one (4b). The second allows any registered caregiver to transfer to any registered patient, and any resulting exchange will not constitute the sale of a controlled substance (4e).

 

There is zero legal grounds for these raids, just like all of the previous abuses the MMJ community has been forced to deal with. Nothing like going after the sick and poor, I guess they like easy targets… Maybe they are just cowards who are afraid to go after the real drug traffickers, the ones who commit violence and kill people. Why deal with violent criminals when you can rob law abiding citizens? Many of us know how LEO is assisting criminal organizations now so that they can later steal the profits from drug trafficking. Notice any similarity with how some dispensaries are approved locally and by LEO, just to be raided several months later? We need to fix or replace this criminal, commercialized gang. 

 

"The United States Supreme Court made it clear that training police personnel is a critical managerial responsibility with their ruling in Canton v. Ohio (1989).  The Court expanded this further in Monell v. Department of Social Services (1978) allowing municipalities to be sued for failing to train its officers."

 

 

Thank you great post

 

edibles made from flower/leaves are not illegal ? So someone can have as much as they need ? What about the 2.5 OZ 

[bobandtorey]

 $1 Medical Marijuana Grow Facility (Flint) 

(google map)

0BR available now

house

 

Medical Marijuana Grow (Burton/Flint) 
I am renting a turn key medical marijuana grow facility. It is equipped with (18) 1000 watt lights, A/C unit, water, and everything needed to start your operation. Ceilings are 10'. We can also build to suit if you wanted it divided into a grow room and bloom room (right now its set up as a bloom room). A discounted rate if you are bringing your own equipment. 

Please, serious replies only. This is not a cheap operation and a substantial amount of money is required down. It is located in a nice quit area and we follow all Michigan state laws.

Edited April 24, 2016 by bobandtorey

[bobandtorey]

http://www.taxexemptworld.com/organization.asp?tn=2286946

[Alphabob]

Thank you great post

 

edibles made from flower/leaves are not illegal ? So someone can have as much as they need ? What about the 2.5 OZ 

 

The total weight of the final product would be limited to 2.5OZ if you expect section 4 protections.

 

Here's what CoA said:

 

"Our interpretation also does not preclude the medical use of marijuana by ingestion of edibles; to the contrary, such use is authorized by the MMMA, within the statutory limitations, provided that the edible is a “mixture or preparation” of “the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant,” rather than of the more potent THC that is extracted from marijuana resin. Again, we find that judgment of the drafters of the MMMA, in so defining “usable marihuana,” to be an appropriate exercise of its duty to define the parameters of legal medical marijuana use."

 

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of-appeals/1638420.html

[t-pain]

gennessee county prosecutor david layton said "i would give bill schuette high grades" on off the record with tim skubic.

 

so flower that guy.

 

http://wkar.org/post/record-41516-ep-4542

 

although he did say he wanted to prioritize violent crime vs drug crime. we'll see if that pans out.

[+Malamute]

This just tells me it may be hard to beat Schuette for governor.