How To Invest In Legalized Marijuana

[+washtenaut]

Regarding Mentor - Webcast today, 6/4 at 11am eastern

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mentor-capital-cannabis-investor-webcast-135400437.html

[t-pain]

INSY at ~60 right now, they are working on a synthetic cbd product for epilepsy or dravet.

[Restorium2]

Best be cautious on that one because of the usual ramifications brought up by the opposition to anything THC related. 

 

The company stated that it received a Refusal to File or RTF letter in October 2014 for its previously-submitted NDA for Dronabinol Oral Solution because that submission included an inadequate or incomplete pediatric study plan to conduct studies to assess the safety and effectiveness of Dronabinol Oral Solution in pediatric patients.

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/insys-submits-nda-for-dronabinol-oral-solution--quick-facts-20150602-00233#ixzz3c5xIq2Xx

 

 

[t-pain]

yes, sorry, i forgot to mention that INSY wont have any (good) news until they finish the clinical trials. until then, the stock is going to jump around a lot. its also at an all time high price, which is obviously the wrong time to buy.

 

dunno about synthetic cbd being schedule 1. NIDA lists cannabidiol as DEA schedule 1, although the controlled substance list only lists marihuana and tetrahydrocannibinols as schedule 1. cannabidiol isnt a tetrahydrocannabinoid is it?

 

also i wasnt talking about their synthetic thc spray (dronabinol) but the synthetic cbd.

http://adisinsight.springer.com/drugs/800039721

looks like the synthetic cbd trials have started in april.

 

i remember reading that synthetic cbd was a common knowledge thing, apparently. i dont think insys actually created it. which means that any pharma company could come 'round and jump on the market? maybe i misread, but something that needs a stronger look at before investing.

[t-pain]

anyone know what percentages/ dosages epidiolex has from gwpharma? or the synthetic cbd from insys?

 

the sativex dosages are so tiny it is sad, like 3mg thc per spray. wtf?

 

SATIVEX is for buccal use. This means SATIVEX is to be sprayed into the mouth, under the tongue or on to the inside of the cheek. Each 100 microlitre spray contains 2.7 mg delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and 2.5 mg cannabidiol.

SATIVEX is available in 5.5 ml amber glass vials.

The 5.5 ml vial contains up to 51 metered sprays.

 

i ask because the epilepsy study i frequently cite has adults on 200-300mg of cbd daily

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7413719

 

i would hate to see insys or gwpharma doing trials on epilepsy with a dose that is 1/100th of what is required.

 

not to mention the anecdotal rso dosage instructions telling people to get 1gram per day for cancers.

[Restorium2]

anyone know what percentages/ dosages epidiolex has from gwpharma? or the synthetic cbd from insys?

 

the sativex dosages are so tiny it is sad, like 3mg thc per spray. wtf?

 

SATIVEX is for buccal use. This means SATIVEX is to be sprayed into the mouth, under the tongue or on to the inside of the cheek. Each 100 microlitre spray contains 2.7 mg delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and 2.5 mg cannabidiol.

SATIVEX is available in 5.5 ml amber glass vials.

The 5.5 ml vial contains up to 51 metered sprays.

 

i ask because the epilepsy study i frequently cite has adults on 200-300mg of cbd daily

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7413719

 

i would hate to see insys or gwpharma doing trials on epilepsy with a dose that is 1/100th of what is required.

 

not to mention the anecdotal rso dosage instructions telling people to get 1gram per day for cancers.

I recently discovered that some patients need just a very tiny bit of oil to combat their disease/discomfort. Such a small dose it was hard to even measure it. Anything more was overkill. 

[t-pain]

I'm specifically talking about epilepsy

 

But that's good to know resto, dosages are hard to figure.

[Restorium2]

I'm specifically talking about epilepsy

 

But that's good to know resto, dosages are hard to figure.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that many epilepsy patients need a very small dosage also. I noticed it with an IBS patient. Very little was needed. Larger dosages worked too but were not any more effective with a patient that has not already built up a tolerance. 

[t-pain]

Isn't synthetic CBD schedule 1?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/insys-receives-dea-approval-to-produce-pharmaceutical-cannabidiol----updates-status-of-its-cannabinoid-program-2014-10-15

 

Insys Therapeutics, Inc. INSY, +2.69% today announced that its Food and Drug Administration (FDA) inspected and Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) approved facility in Round Rock, Texas, has received DEA approval to manufacture synthetically its pharmaceutical grade Cannabidiol (CBD). The Company has also been granted a quota to produce 15kg of CBD in 2014 and expects a larger quota in 2015 for its continued clinical studies. Insys believes these quantities are sufficient to pursue its CBD development program as currently planned.

[t-pain]

its not listed itself in the regular michigan schedule 1, but it maybe included as part of the synthetic law, i'd have to review it carefully.

[trichcycler]

isnt it widely available at smoke shops under names like incense?

[t-pain]

k2/spice / insense are different research chemicals like JWH-018, not synthetic cbd.

 

i've never seen synthetic thc outside of marinol either. which is a point i made for max's case where the whole "thc unknown origin" nonsense comes up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-018

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

 

why do you guys think that they are the same chemicals?

[+washtenaut]

Here's an article on CBD research

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/06/researchers-finally-studying-chemical-pot/

[t-pain]

I believe one of the other synthetic cannabinoids in common use is synthetic CBD.

i still cannot find any source that says synthetic cbd or synthetic thc is on the illegal market.

[t-pain]

there are analogues of cannabidiol, certainly:

 

O-1660 0-1871 0-1422 0-2654 and HU-308

 

but these are analogues, not the exact same molecules, structure, weight, etc as cannabidiol.

 

i forgot why i was even arguing this.

[t-pain]

interesting report on insys (INSY).

 

http://sirf-online.org/2015/04/24/the-new-killing-it/

[+washtenaut]

I could be wrong.  Hell, I have been wrong before on this very subject but it seems that the cannabis sector may be starting to heat up again.

[+washtenaut]

A scam?  is that the stock market overall or just the cannabis companies?  GW Pharma?

[+washtenaut]

Some of those scammy stocks are set to explode if you think cannabis use will become increasing legal.  You can perhaps profit from those rising stocks if you want to pay attention.  I seem to recall having this discussion before....lol

[t-pain]

I agrees and think the whole stock market is scammy.

 

I lost two hundred on bad marijuana penny stocks. so buyer beware

[+washtenaut]

Yes, they explode, then they implode. Don't get caught holding the bag at the end.

 

That is good advice.  I did pretty well on the last explosion though and hope to do well on the next explosion.

 

I think these cannabis companies have to show financial results, not just plans.  Many people got burned on the last sector implosion and they are more cautious this time around.

 

I am not sure that GW can only succeed by enforcing laws against competitors, though they will probably use that threat.  I am guessing here too but I see FDA approval leading to eventual insurance coverage of FDA approved cannabis based medicine.  You may be able to buy similar medicines at the dispensary but I think having insurance pay for GW's offering and not paying for dispensary products, will be a big difference maker for GW.

[Highlander]

You have to wonder how long it will take for big pharma, once they can sell cannabis, to find a way to buy cheap MJ from Mexico or Asia.

[AmishRnot4ganja]

You have to wonder how long it will take for big pharma, once they can sell cannabis, to find a way to buy cheap MJ from Mexico or Asia.

 

I would guess that they already either have plans drawn up or are working on plans. In either case, it won't take them long to get up to speed.

Once mass production is scaled up, cannabis will be worth $.10 a gram. Extracts will follow suit.

 

I would be happy if cannabis was treated the same as liquor. I can go 5 miles in any direction from my house and buy enough 80 proof alcohol to fill my bathtub. I, and 99.9% of the population, choose not to buy this much alcohol at one time, but the point is I can do this if I want to. The authorities trust me with a substance that can be fatal if over consumed, but they won't allow me to have even one gram of a substance that is harmless. WTF?

[zachw]

The stock market is what I'd call "generally scammy." Most people know about this.

 

The marijuana stocks are what I'd call "particularly scammy." Most do not realize that.

 

The people who "know about this" are confused between speculating and investing.

 

Speculating is scammy. And the little guy has a big disadvantage compared to high speed traders. 

 

But keeping your money in the stock market in low-cost index funds is still the best long-term investment strategy. 

 

YMMV.

Edited August 9, 2016 by zachw

[Restorium2]

Do you deny that the majority of transactions in the stock markets are part of short-term, manipulative trades?

 

I am not saying everybody participating in the stock market is involved in a scam, just the entities that are the most active. And many, many people that are participating, unwittingly.

There's gambling and investing.

 

Short term speculation is gambling. Long term is investing. Short term depends on hype, superstition, chasing your tail, chasing someone else's tail.... many dumb things. 

 

Long term depends on actual earnings. 

 

Many folks talk about the great stock market crash of '08 like it killed everyone investing. I had long term investments in '08 and my money has double from what it was worth before the crash. Actually doubled. I wasn't gambling. I was investing and was rewarded for that. Always think 'earnings'. That is the key. Be careful listening to anyone who uses '08 as an excuse. It's a false narrative.