Medical Pot Regulations Face Pushback In Senate Hearing, Military Vet Tossed In Heated Exchange

[bobandtorey]

LANSING, MI — Medical marijuana activists spoke out Tuesday against a proposal to license and tax dispensaries, arguing the legislation would drive up patient prices and force out registered caregivers.

A lengthy debate in the Michigan Senate Judiciary Committee ended without any voting but was marked by drama, including the removal of an activist during a heated exchange.

Dakota Serna of Kalamazoo told lawmakers he was a military veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder, and he credited medical marijuana with saving his life. 

But Serna called the proposed legislation "a disgrace to the medical marijuana community," including veterans like himself and people on disability who are struggling to survive.

"This bill not only takes more money from them — it taxes their medicine — you're going to give some of that money to the sheriffs' departments," he said. "The jackboots, the thugs that come into people's homes and kick in their door —"

With that, Committee Chairman Rick Jones gaveled down Serna. Both men raised their voices as they attempted to talk over each other — "No you listen sir," Serna said at one point — and a Senate sergeant-at-arms eventually escorted him from the hearing.

"I will not have that kind of language here," said Jones, R-Grand Ledge, a former sheriff. "You have to be civil. I honor your service to our country, but enough is enough. I will not have you calling people names."

Other activists used more delicate language but echoed Serna's cost concerns with pending modifications to House Bill 4209, which would create a regulatory framework for medical marijuana growers, processors, distributors, product testers and storefront "provisioning center" dispensaries.

The legislation, as approved by the House in October, would allow local communities to decide whether they want to allow marijuana businesses. Dispensaries would be taxed at 3 percent, with revenue going to municipalities, counties, sheriffs and the state's general fund.

A proposed change in the Senate committee would create a three-tiered licensing system for growers, distributors and dispensaries by prohibiting one owner from operating multiple business types.

"Pfizer doesn't make drugs and then go down and open a store and sell them," Jones said, describing rationale for the tiered system. 

"I had been told by all the groups prior to this that we don't want monopolies, we don't want some wealthy person to come in and buy up everything and control everything. That's what we're attempting to do."

But critics say Michigan's tiered system for alcohol distribution is a better comparison than the pharmaceutical industry, and they fear the modified proposal will ultimately drive up prices by creating lucrative business opportunities for middle men.

Alcohol distribution is akin to a monopoly in Michigan, according to Robin Schneider, legislative liaison for the National Patient Rights Association, which had supported earlier versions of the dispensary bill but is now opposed.

"I haven't heard anything good about that model, so I don't know why we would want to do it again with a new substance, especially when this is medicine and we're supposed to be concerned about patient care and patients' needs," Schneider said after the hearing.

Jones, speaking with reporters after hearing, sought to dispel what he called "rumors" that beer and wine wholesalers are angling to distribute medical marijuana, and he said the law enforcement community supports the proposed licensing system.

"Police want everything very clean, just like Canada," Jones said, referencing the medical marijuana industry there. 

"What we have right now is totally illegal. You have caregivers with overages throwing the stuff in their trunk, taking it down to the dispensary and selling it. We have homes where they're processing the stuff into oils, and we've had explosions. It's just not safe."

The legislation will not end the patient-caregiver system, which was approved by Michigan voters in 2008, but activists are concerned the regulations would preclude registered caregivers from fully participating in the new medical marijuana industry. 

Michigan's voter-approved law does not address dispensaries, and the state Supreme Court has empowered county prosecutors to shut them down as a public nuisance. But dispensaries have continued to operate in some communities at the leisure of local officials.

Medical dispensary legislation passed the House last session but ultimately died in the Senate, where it faced strong opposition from police, prosecutors and sheriffs. Sponsoring Rep. Mike Callton, R-Nashville, reintroduced the bill earlier this year and has attempted to engage the law enforcement community in the legislative process.

"I'm confident that working together, we can craft a solution that allows for safe access and respects the will of those who voted in favor of medical marijuana," Callton said Tuesday in committee testimony.

Other House-approved bills would allow for non-smokable forms of the drug and create a seed-to-sale tracking system for marijuana plants. Jones also intends to link the packages to bills that would let landlords ban medical marijuana in rental units and create a police pilot program for roadside saliva testing in suspected drugged driving cases.

Jones, working to allay lingering concerns of law enforcement groups, is hoping they end up "neutral" on the final package, which he would consider a win.

But activists, in their testimony on Tuesday, said the legislative process has focused too little on the patients that the medical marijuana law is intended to benefit.

The bill package "creates far more categories of criminal behavior for medical marijuana patients than it creates protections and rights," said Rick Thompson of Michigan NORML. "Remember that medical marijuana patients pay the state for the privilege to participate in the program, and yet you're creating vast degrees of criminality for people who pay for the opportunity to participate."

Jones had planned to call a committee vote on the bills Tuesday, but two members had to leave early to attend a funeral. He may schedule another hearing later this week or next, which is the last scheduled session week of 2015.

 

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2015/12/medical_marijuana_regulations.html

[Restorium2]

Serna Serna Serna Serna Serna ..........   

[bobandtorey]

Call his office at 517-373-3447 and demand that he publicaly apologize to Kelly and Dakota Serna

[Restorium2]

They are answering the phones ........ and will relay your message to Jones.

[outsideinthecold]

Just called Sen. Jones' office and talked a few moments with his paid listener. Pointed out his stance was at odds with the basic tenets of small government and explained why alienating 8-10% of the voters ensured Obama was re-elected.

 

Asked how many others had called. The nice young man said I was the second.

Edited December 9, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[Restorium2]

Just called Sen. Jones' office and talked a few moments with his paid listener. Pointed out his stance was at odds with the basic tenets of small government and explained why alienating 8-10% of the voters ensured Obama was re-elected.

 

Asked how many others had called. The nice young man said I was the second.

Then I was the first.

[bobandtorey]

He lied 

[bobandtorey]

They are answering the phones ........ and will relay your message to Jones.

 

 

This the same thing he told me also i left my phone # for a call back

[Restorium2]

Answered the phone on the first ring and knew exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the veteran that was treated unfairly and deserved a public apology. 

[phaquetoo]

I would do the same thing as serna, although I am very proud of him and beleive everything he said, and hate the way he was treated, if we all acted like that it wouldnt be the best thing for our movement, but on the other hand we do need a few like him to show his disability!

 

I think rick thompson did an exelent job up there, and many more did it on edge but kept most of the anger out!

 

Im with serna!

 

Peace

[suneday11]

They always say "two" or "a couple." It's like when people get pulled over for a dui, they almost always say they had two drinks!

[Pain]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

[bobandtorey]

Answered the phone on the first ring and knew exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the veteran that was treated unfairly and deserved a public apology. 

 

 

Lol i told them the same thing as you about the Veteran and said i was one also

[bobandtorey]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

 

 

Your guess is as good as anyones 

 

If only we knew Imho the Bill's will not pass this year

[suneday11]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

no vote yesterday. Some of the bill substitutes weren't available, so we wait for another hearing and more subs.

[bobandtorey]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

 

i see no bickering here only Lansing because they hate POT

[phaquetoo]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

I beleive they said they would try to set up another time this week or next and it is the last sessions of 2015

 

I would have to say we will not see anything this yr!

 

Peace

[imiubu]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

 

2 + hrs worth here

 

https://misenate.viebit.com/#jF1kFRrQspiK

[Pain]

All this Bickering, get back on topic, So what happens now to the Bills???

Sorry for the confusion, wrong thread !! This was meant for the other post on the Bills, Where Phauq calls out other members on this site, and spills all his troubles.... 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Pain

[suneday11]

Sorry for the confusion, wrong thread !! This was meant for the other post on the Bills, Where Phauq calls out other members on this site, and spills all his troubles....

 

that's how it goes sometimes. We're all sick and sometimes when you get roughed up by real life goons or Internet goons....you feel bad. When you feel bad you tend to feel that illness a little more. The emotions kind of combine and you can't tell if you're sick or sad.

 

I don't see it as spilling troubles. I see it as he is sharing with us. Help or hate(not directed at anyone), We all have a choice.

Edited December 9, 2015 by suneday11

[Pain]

that's how it goes sometimes. We're all sick and sometimes werhen you get roughed up by real life goons or Internet goons....you feel bad. When you feel bad you tend to feel that illness a little more. The emotions kind of combine and you can't tell if you're sick or sad.

 

I don't see it as spilling troubles. I see it as he is sharing with us. Help or hate(not directed at anyone), We all have a choice.

i like the way you think ! I,ve been that individual, that felt life kicked me to the curb. I had Anger issues for years, a raving lunatic at times, heavy meds to keep me in check. But weed and not sweating the small stuff helped me out, that and getting old. my 2 cents

[Greg Rx]

that's how it goes sometimes. We're all sick and sometimes when you get roughed up by real life goons or Internet goons....you feel bad. When you feel bad you tend to feel that illness a little more. The emotions kind of combine and you can't tell if you're sick or sad.

 

I don't see it as spilling troubles. I see it as he is sharing with us. Help or hate(not directed at anyone), We all have a choice.

Very interesting comment. Even trying to keep this in mind, we still argue

[bobandtorey]

by Rick Thompson/December 10, 2015

LANSING- A news report just confirmed that Senator Jones got his donkey kicked in Tuesday’s Judiciary Committee meeting.

I am proud to say, I did some of the footwork.

At the end of the December 8 Judiciary Committee meeting, where new amendments to Michigan’s medical marijuana dispensary bills were introduced, Sen. Jones promised the people in attendance, “I am very sorry we could not have a vote today; that was my full intent… but I will have (a vote) as soon as possible.”

Two days after testimony by myself and others against the new version of the dispensary/warehousing/transport/seed-to-sale bill, Jones appeared in news media to say that he was abandoning all hope of passing the bills in Committee.

Per the MIRS news service: “New regulations on the state’s medical marijuana industry won’t be coming out of the Legislature in 2015 and may have problems moving in the Senate next year with a House-passed package having stalled in a Senate committee… (Jones) doesn’t have the votes in his committee to move” the bill package. MIRS, Medical Marijuana Regulation Shelved Until 2016, December 10 (no Internet link)

It’s a bizarre admission for the Senator to make, and a rarely-used political strategy, but the action to bypass Committee is allowable under state law.

What changed, and what was said? Oh, that’s a juicy story, to be sure.

THE HEARING

In the MIRS article it states, “Jones (says) political in-fighting within the medical marijuana community has created a situation where he doesn’t have the votes in his committee to move HB 4209, HB4210 and HB 4827.”

Hey, Senator Jones: there’s no political infighting. We all agree. HB 4209 and HB 4827 suck, and they should die. (See the end of the article)

What made Jones go from voting it out “today” to not voting it out at all? Testimony against the newest version of the bills, and the removal of support from pro-marijuana groups who had, after the end of the 2014 legislative session, negotiated compromises with lawmakers to make the bills passable.

Jones was so sure of himself and his control of the bills before the Committee hearing began he didn’t mind bragging about how much he had this situation under control. “I am very sorry we could not have a vote today; that was my full intent… but I will have (a vote) as soon as possible.”

If Jones said that, he must have though the had the votes to do so.

Testimony from the smart side of the argument came first from Jim Powers, representing Michigan Parents for Compassion. Powers outlined the need to pass HB 4210, a bill designed to re-legalize concentrates, edibles and other non-smoked forms of marijuana for patient use. Powers and others expressed support for the Senate version of HB 4210 as well, called SB 140 and its companion, SB 141. Powers later told TCC that he is strongly opposed to HB 4209 in its amended form.

Ms. Mitchell of the Michigan Responsibility Council (MRC) took the podium shortly thereafter. She was joined in the chamber that day by fellow MRC members Tim Beck and Paul Wellday.

Mitchell revealed the group’s interest in the bills when she told the Committee that there were too many potential growing operations available for entrepreneurs under the current proposal. The proposed language would require “hundreds” of grow facilities, she said, and cited Illinois’ policy to allow 22 growers statewide with a critical tone.

Mitchell’s words label the MRC as seeking a Responsible Ohio-style, ten-players-only monopoly on cultivation for the marijuana market. Jones wisely distanced himself from that concept. “I think the bills are an attempt to make sure we don’t have an Ohio-like monopoly,” Jones told the Committee chamber at the end of session.

Ouch.

In an MLive article by Jonathan Oosting, Jones added, “I had been told by all the groups prior to this that we don’t want monopolies, we don’t want some wealthy person to come in and buy up everything and control everything.”

The MRC testimony was followed by a mish-mash of government officials and activists speaking on various facets of the bills themselves. The Michigan Municipal League and the Michigan Townships Authority spoke, as did advocate Roger Maufort of the JC3. Eric Gunnels of Thetford Township spoke.

An addiction industry representative spoke, and used outdated science he gained from Project SAM and other government sources. Advocates spoke about the repressive language contained in the bills, and the need for protections.

Last to testify was myself, representing Michigan NORML and other organizations. Mitchell’s concept of too many grow operations was quickly addressed:

“There are 83 counties in the state. If there are 200 licensed growers, that’s only 2.5 licensed growers per county. I don’t think that reaches a level of saturation…

“When someone expresses that 22 facilities, as is expressed in Illinois law, is too many, it seems they are out of alignment with the common man and logical thinking. That approach is an embrace of monopoly, and is in opposition to Governor Snyder’s plan for small business as the backbone of success for Michigan’s future.”

Jones hiding the substitute bill from the citizens prior to the Committee hearing was addressed during my testimony, as were aspects of the bill that eliminate caregivers from commercial enterprise and the enormous criminality created for medical marijuana patients by the proposed law.

Oosting’s MLive article offered this:

The bill package “creates far more categories of criminal behavior for medical marijuana patients than it creates protections and rights,” said Rick Thompson of Michigan NORML. “Remember that medical marijuana patients pay the state for the privilege to participate in the program, and yet you’re creating vast degrees of criminality for people who pay for the opportunity to participate.”

But perhaps the biggest bombshell came when Iraq War veteran Dakota Serna took the podium and testified as to his service and need for medical marijuana. He began to take issue with the county Sheriff departments, the police entities that seem to do the most raids and damage to patients, but when the veteran referred to law enforcement as “jack boots” and “thugs”, Sen Jones stopped him in mid-sentence.

Jones is a former Sheriff of Eaton County (pop. 108,000) and he is law enforcement’s biggest ally in the legislature. A tense exchange began between the former Sheriff and the war veteran, which resulted in Jones ordering guards to eject Dakota Serna from the Committee chambers. After a few tense moments Serna left peacefully, to applause from advocates present.

For details of that exchange see my article or view the video.

THE FALLOUT

Jones ejecting Serna from the chamber generated a good deal of media, most of it in support of the veteran. A video showing the conflict between Jones and Serna went viral through social media and Internet news portals. Most of the reaction to the Senator was, predictably, not in his favor.

Also not in his favor: the National Patients Rights Association, whose capable spokesperson Robin Schneider told media from all across the state that they had no support for the three-tiered model outlined in the new version of the dispensary bill, HB 4209, but maintained support for the smoking alternatives bill, HB 4210.

“I haven’t heard anything good about that model, so I don’t know why we would want to do it again with a new substance, especially when this is medicine and we’re supposed to be concerned about patient care and patients’ needs,” she told Oosting and MLive.

NPRA Chair Adam Macdonald had announced their concern in a statement he made to The Compassion Chronicles on December 7, a day before the hearing.

Leaders from the state’s marijuana advocacy organizations had already made statements of opposition to the bills over the summer after manipulation in the House Judiciary added rules requiring armored cars, seed-to-sale tracking and more criminality to HB 4209. NPRA has now joined those leaders in retracting support.

Also withdrawing support for HB 4209: Evergreen Management, whose leader George Brikho was a Republican candidate for Congress.

After taking a media beating of epic proportions on December 9, the MIRS report from December 10 revealed Jones no longer has the support of his Committee members. Of the five Committee members, Jones was a Yes vote, Schuitmacker and Rocca were resistant because of the conflict with federal laws, Colbeck was a decided NO and Bieda had too many questions remaining to guarantee a yes vote, per the MIRS article.

“We have considerable work to do on this issue,” Bieda said during the hearing.

If you don’t have the votes, don’t call a vote. That is Senator Jones’ plan, anyway. MIRS reports: “(Jones) said he asked Senate Majority Leader Arlan Meekhof (R-West Olive) to discharge the bills from his committee.” Instead of letting the bills die in Committee, or trying to amend language until it is acceptable, Jones is going to sidestep his fellow Senators and take it to the full Senate, where he has more supporters.

If Jones is successful and gets Meekhof to allow the bill package to be considered on the Senate floor, he will turn it into a Christmas tree.

That is a term describing legislation where lawmakers throw a bunch of other stuff onto a bill in hopes of getting the Senate to vote for the entire package. “Jones also intends to link the packages to bills that would let landlords ban medical marijuana in rental units and create a police pilot program for roadside saliva testing in suspected drugged driving cases,” per the MLive article.

Neither of those proposals would be passed if offered by itself, but Jones will throw them onto the bill package like ugly ornaments on a beautiful  blue spruce.

 

http://thecompassionchronicles.com/2015/12/10/dont-mess-with-us/

[bobandtorey]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SiYZmfH9VKc

[Restorium2]

I think our phone calls had something to do with it to. Used my best James Brown voice with a little 'make my day' Eastwood at the end. Very serious in deed. 

 

Thanks to those who testified he was off kilter and committing political suicide for the cameras. A few of us pointed that out while he had a hangover the next morning. He just wants it to 'go away' now. No more warm fuzzy .... just hard core medical marijuana supporters who are not smiling. He has to realize this is very serious for us. Not just a money game for his buddies to play. This is real life in the raw. Get a taste of that Jones. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Restorium2