Going Topless Outdoor

[beourbud]

I sure would like to hear from Mr Cavanaugh.

 

Haven't talk to him in quite a while.

 

Actually, the last time was late 70s dropping JC off at UM during Hash Bash. 1970 Gold Buick Skylark GS

 

It was my neighbors car.

 

Would love to get his perspective on the matter or maybe just reminisce .

Edited April 1, 2016 by beourbud

[blackhorse]

Growers in this area are putting wire on top of grows for this year.

 

My first year of outdoor grow, I had no top. Then added wire top after reading the act a few times. All sides except bottom is the confusing part.

 

My thought was sides had nothing to do with top or bottom.

[trichcycler]

I see that too, at first, then I figure why take a chance. my neighbor was asked nicely by a local sheriff to put a lid on it. he figured his 10 foot high fence would suffice...nope, not for a hassle free experience. I'll err on the side of safe, on the side of "no leo interference".

 

NOt putting a top on the cannabis garden is a sure fire way to attract more LEO, more court costs and more attorney fees. Putting a chain link, chicken wire, plastic over top is cheap and easy insurance, not fool proof, but nothing in our act is yet. be as safe as you can, it aint worth it( to us patients) to take chances like this one imo.

 

glad to hear you're compliant. any troubles so far with the outdoor?

[mibrains]

It actually is fairly simple.

 

All sides except the bottom infers the top is most defiantly included.

 

It was not mentioned the same as the base was because it is not exempt like the base is.

 

How or why would anyone think when they say all sides must be enclosed then quantify a specific value for one of those sides (the bottom) and then think that the topside is not also included?

All sides means every side.

 

A top is a side.

 

Ever heard the expression topside?

 

My take on it is if you want to be safe.

put a top on it.

The most minimally invasive one you can....

 

To be safe is better than to be arrested.

 

In every count it matters most what your local prosecutor says... (unless and until they are replaced... then its up to the new guy or gal)

 

stay informed.

 

Stay safe.

 

Safe means what to you?

 

Make an informed decision and then hopefully you can produce some excellent quality medical grade cannbis.

 

Outdoor has way to many drawbacks for me at this juncture.

 

If you want to treat it as a prison as stated in an earlier post then I would recommend prison security also to include 24 hour armed guards and towers on all corners.... without those you would need a top on a prison.

 

 

If it were me i would most absolutly Lock it up and enclose the topside cuz they are willing to arrest you in many counties so why chance it?

 

just because your paranoid... does not mean they are not out to get you.

[t-pain]

do chicken wire (assuming no neighbors can see from an upper floor window) for the top if growing outdoors without a structure.

 

large animal cage kennel (one that is secured into the ground and chain fence on the top) would also work.

[blackhorse]

I see that too, at first, then I figure why take a chance. my neighbor was asked nicely by a local sheriff to put a lid on it. he figured his 10 foot high fence would suffice...nope, not for a hassle free experience. I'll err on the side of safe, on the side of "no leo interference".

 

NOt putting a top on the cannabis garden is a sure fire way to attract more LEO, more court costs and more attorney fees. Putting a chain link, chicken wire, plastic over top is cheap and easy insurance, not fool proof, but nothing in our act is yet. be as safe as you can, it aint worth it( to us patients) to take chances like this one imo.

 

glad to hear you're compliant. any troubles so far with the outdoor?

 

Only plant a few each year, try to keep within limits. Usually in fall with the rain, have problems with powdery mildew.

 

This last year I put a 5' x 5' frame covered with plastic over each plant during rainy weather. It helped a lot.

 

Plants love the outdoors.

 

Would suggest not planting until end of May and then small plants.

 

One year I planted 8 week old plants the last of May, got too big for my top. Had to bend over quite often to keep inside the wire. A 3 week old plant will be almost as large.

 

Good luck with the outdoor grow.

[Highlander]

It actually is fairly simple.

All sides except the bottom infers the top is most defiantly included.

It was not mentioned the same as the base was because it is not exempt like the base is.

How or why would anyone think when they say all sides must be enclosed then quantify a specific value for one of those sides (the bottom) and then think that the topside is not also included?

All sides means every side.

A top is a side.

Ever heard the expression topside?

My take on it is if you want to be safe.

put a top on it.

The most minimally invasive one you can....

To be safe is better than to be arrested.

In every count it matters most what your local prosecutor says... (unless and until they are replaced... then its up to the new guy or gal)

stay informed.

Stay safe.

Safe means what to you?

Make an informed decision and then hopefully you can produce some excellent quality medical grade cannbis.

Outdoor has way to many drawbacks for me at this juncture.

If you want to treat it as a prison as stated in an earlier post then I would recommend prison security also to include 24 hour armed guards and towers on all corners.... without those you would need a top on a prison.

If it were me i would most absolutly Lock it up and enclose the topside cuz they are willing to arrest you in many counties so why chance it?

just because your paranoid... does not mean they are not out to get you.

Yep. "Go topside," a familiar term in boating.

 

Push is going to go to shove pretty soon. Some court is going to rule on what "side" means.

 

Basic rules of statutory interpretation tell us that if the law says, "all sides except the bottom," it is pretty obvious that the intent was that the bottom is a side. It's pretty clear then that the top is also considered a side under the law.

 

When this issue is put in front of a court, the court isn't going to do google searches on what "side" means. They won't look to grade school geometry books. They are going to look at applicable dictionary definitions. One Merriam-Webster definition relates "side" as the long side of a barn and the other two walls as "ends". So anyone who wants to argue that a top isn't a side should maybe also argue that the ends aren't sides either. So in other words, if your grow enclosure is rectangular, all you need is fencing on the two long walls, and you can leave two ends and the top open?

 

A die has six sides, no matter how you roll it. "Top" and "bottom" are simply more specific terms for which side one refers to. So you have four vertical sides, a top side, and a bottom side.

 

No need to argue about what "side" means, because the court who deals with this will use a dictionary. Is their any dictionary definition that excludes a "top" as a side? I don't think there is.

[blackhorse]

The grows that I was aware of, msp cut down the plants and hauled them away and no court for the homeowner. Just lost their plants cause of no wire on top.

[dutchfarm]

like I said in an earlier post, told by S.A.N.E. put a top on it or get arrested, not very difficult to understand, use some common sense and just cover it with wire, no need to block the sun. Why take a chance?

[trichcycler]

It actually is fairly simple.

All sides except the bottom infers the top is most defiantly included.

It was not mentioned the same as the base was because it is not exempt like the base is.

How or why would anyone think when they say all sides must be enclosed then quantify a specific value for one of those sides (the bottom) and then think that the topside is not also included?

All sides means every side.

A top is a side.

 

 

is simple to me and you.....must not be so simple after all to some?  informed decisions?  its not like the top will cause legal issues when in place. I would rather err on the side of positive patient outcomes like we used to here instead of taking these chances to make legal precedence. unless of course this legal precedence will be established pro bono. the streets are different than a court of law. Defendable means nothing to the broke who lost their cash in a raid. With a pro bono defense we could eliminate many of these issues very quickly imo. without it, bad advise, misinformation....all serve as a money grab for the system. they gamed system sucks. the players often do to.

 

I think here we confuse some patients looking to stay out of trouble.  we yell at the internet about the things we want, the way we think it should be and next thing you know......gofundme is here once again.  who wins when we ill advise patients?  who benefits from misinformation in the medical marijuana program? who wins when we tell a patient "go ahead, you can pay for your defense later, you got a good chance there buddy, heres my card....

 

I would fully expect a police officer, a bad neighbor, an unsavory legal practice, to push the agenda of "no top necessary".....but not here. I am disappointed. I thought this place was here to help us stay safe by following rules, not taking chances. Taking chances with mmj may be good for some but not for me. its  a sad day.

[phaquetoo]

If what you are looking for is , the Highest Quality, Best Tasting , Highest Yielding, Healthy and Happy Plants , A Top does not even enter the imagination for a grower. It's counter productive.

 

The permanent structure base utilizing chain link for example is well described but who or why would you put a Top on it.

It's counterintuitive .

 

Its like raising children in a room they never leave , void of Natural Sunlight .

 

They will grow, but they won't be right.

 

We should be encouraging growing the Highest Quality Possible. And that is Organic Grown in Natural Sunlight. Just as God intended it to be.

You forgot

 

Abrogate, Free The Weed!

 

Your welcome!

 

Peace

[beourbud]

You forgot

 

Abrogate, Free The Weed!

 

Your welcome!

 

Peace

Thank You

[Restorium2]

OK FF Cavanaugh managed to convince a consensus of our peers that an outdoor grow enclosure needs a top even though he couldn't bring himself to actually write TOP, which is a feat in itself. Congrats FF. 

 

The next question that follows is: What must that (unmentioned by name) top be made of to be legal.

 

Here's FF's wording on that;

 

enclosed on all sides, except for the base, by chain link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material .......

[Restorium2]

To blame a discussion site for somebody getting arrested is silly.

 

I will tell you that people have obeyed and complied and bent over backwards for police and still been raided. There are issues on the whole with outdoor growing, and the top is just another of several. People can grow outdoors only if the police let them, or if they are confident in their protections under the law. Sometimes police revoke their permission at the moment they are ripping out plants, so it's all pretty iffy.

 

I would not put a marijuana grow in my yard unless I was totally sure about my protections under both section 4 and section 8, top or not.

We had reports here by registered posters describing the same Task Force, BAYANET, giving instruction to have a top and not necessarily needing a top, just like Ken Steckler of the Prosecuting Attorney Assoc. has been doing. Which accounting is true? Who knows. We must move forward on this unstable footing as usual.

[beourbud]

Yep. "Go topside," a familiar term in boating.

Push is going to go to shove pretty soon. Some court is going to rule on what "side" means.

Basic rules of statutory interpretation tell us that if the law says, "all sides except the bottom," it is pretty obvious that the intent was that the bottom is a side. It's pretty clear then that the top is also considered a side under the law.

When this issue is put in front of a court, the court isn't going to do google searches on what "side" means. They won't look to grade school geometry books. They are going to look at applicable dictionary definitions. One Merriam-Webster definition relates "side" as the long side of a barn and the other two walls as "ends". So anyone who wants to argue that a top isn't a side should maybe also argue that the ends aren't sides either. So in other words, if your grow enclosure is rectangular, all you need is fencing on the two long walls, and you can leave two ends and the top open?

A die has six sides, no matter how you roll it. "Top" and "bottom" are simply more specific terms for which side one refers to. So you have four vertical sides, a top side, and a bottom side.

No need to argue about what "side" means, because the court who deals with this will use a dictionary. Is their any dictionary definition that excludes a "top" as a side? I don't think there is.

We are not discussing a Ship or a Die , We are discussing a Garden. Ships and dies have top sides, Gardens Do Not.

There is No Top to a Garden. Only those who do not want Outdoor Grows subscribe to a top for an Outdoor Garden.

 

If the Garden has base four sides and top , the garden would be inside the permanent structure and Not an Outdoor Grow.

If it is completely enclosed it is a indoor grow or Green House, Not an Outdoor Grow.

Depending on the top you use, the environment inside the grow will not be the same as Outdoors. Therefore Not an Outdoor Garden

it doesn't make any sense to a Farmer. An Outdoor Grow is in the Sun. No Top.

 

Had the law read, completely enclosed than a top would required, But it doesn't and why would it?

The fact that the top was not mention or described in detail as the sides and base are suggests the author has knowledge of Gardening.

If it was so important it would not be omitted .

We need to keep this in context....it is a Garden

 

Some may have a better perspective than others, but if you look at many prisons, They are locked and enclosed facility, with a base and all sides permanently secured, many with chain link...(Tent City) Most have yards within those sides where the GP are allowed to get some sun and in many instances garden. High walls / fences hell yeah, Tops No

Gee so many haters , funny most were the same folk pushing for dispensaries and extracts. Telling people they were legal all the while they were getting busted. Lol. Must be sour grapes.

 

Has anyone been specifically convicted/arrested for no top on their Garden? Cutting plants down does not equal prosecution. Leo will Jack you up anyhow.

 

Who here, if they were writing the law , would put a top on a garden....Not a Gardener or Pharmer

 

is the concept of a top a security measure or just another restriction on us poor patients trying to grow the best meds possible? Does 5 mil of plastic constitute security? No. What's the point?

 

The dispensary lobby does not want Outdoor Grows. They are trying to regulate them out of existence.

 

Having spent time with Mr Cavanaugh and sharing thoughts on the subject, I can tell you he is a very knowledgeable and reasonable man. He never mentioned a garden with a top. Why would he? And if he wanted a top on the Garden he would have described it in detail, because that is the kind of detail oriented fellow he is.

 

Put a top on if you want, no one is stopping you. But don't force your foolish misconceptions on the rest of us.

 

We understand the risk and rewards.

 

Long Live Outdoor Gardens

 

Eta....my comments are addressing the issue and not aimed directly at you Highlander

Edited April 2, 2016 by beourbud

[Restorium2]

Who here, if they were writing the law , would put a top on a garden....Not a Gardener or Pharmer

 

I would to keep the birds off of my cherry trees. But I would not do it for security. Makes no sense at all. It's just a worthless hoop. The original law stressed security, that made some sense. But with wire cutters and shovels I don't see climbing as a specific threat that is larger than any other. What it is, obviously, is just a PITA for the sake of creating a PITA. It's the single hardest part of making a grow structure. It's very limiting and labor intensive. Especially considering what it has to be made of; chain link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material

[beourbud]

I bet I can breech any Topped Outdoor Grow in less than 60 seconds with bolt cutters and crowbar.

 

Just like Tent City,,,,it's not the fence it's Man , cameras and the Dogs that secures the, permanent structure with base and chain link on all for sides. No Top

 

Get Real.

[phaquetoo]

We are not discussing a Ship or a Die , We are discussing a Garden. Ships and dies have top sides, Gardens Do Not.

There is No Top to a Garden. Only those who do not want Outdoor Grows subscribe to a top for an Outdoor Garden.

 

If the Garden has base four sides and top , the garden would be inside the permanent structure and Not an Outdoor Grow.

If it is completely enclosed it is a indoor grow or Green House, Not an Outdoor Grow.

Depending on the top you use, the environment inside the grow will not be the same as Outdoors. Therefore Not an Outdoor Garden

it doesn't make any sense to a Farmer. An Outdoor Grow is in the Sun. No Top.

 

Had the law read, completely enclosed than a top would required, But it doesn't and why would it?

The fact that the top was not mention or described in detail as the sides and base are suggests the author has knowledge of Gardening.

If it was so important it would not be omitted .

We need to keep this in context....it is a Garden

 

Some may have a better perspective than others, but if you look at many prisons, They are locked and enclosed facility, with a base and all sides permanently secured, many with chain link...(Tent City) Most have yards within those sides where the GP are allowed to get some sun and in many instances garden. High walls / fences hell yeah, Tops No

Gee so many haters , funny most were the same folk pushing for dispensaries and extracts. Telling people they were legal all the while they were getting busted. Lol. Must be sour grapes.

 

Has anyone been specifically convicted/arrested for no top on their Garden? Cutting plants down does not equal prosecution. Leo will Jack you up anyhow.

 

Who here, if they were writing the law , would put a top on a garden....Not a Gardener or Pharmer

 

is the concept of a top a security measure or just another restriction on us poor patients trying to grow the best meds possible? Does 5 mil of plastic constitute security? No. What's the point?

 

The dispensary lobby does not want Outdoor Grows. They are trying to regulate them out of existence.

 

Having spent time with Mr Cavanaugh and sharing thoughts on the subject, I can tell you he is a very knowledgeable and reasonable man. He never mentioned a garden with a top. Why would he? And if he wanted a top on the Garden he would have described it in detail, because that is the kind of detail oriented fellow he is.

 

Put a top on if you want, no one is stopping you. But don't force your foolish misconceptions on the rest of us.

 

We understand the risk and rewards.

 

Long Live Outdoor Gardens

 

Eta....my comments are addressing the issue and not aimed directly at you Highlander

Your post makes sense! But even before this new report or order from the state police about tops, I made a small out door grow, I dont know if you were around, I can probably find some pic's, I called it my free hill billy legal grow out doors!

 

I pounded fence post's into the ground, I wrapped the the sides, I started on one side of where I was going to put my entrance, ie locked door, and I went all the way back to where I started the fencing (chicken wire) when I got to the back where It met the beginning of my side wrap, I made it go over the top, and to the entrance, my back, top and front side entrance door was all one peice, when I took the pad lock off to enter the small area, my chicken wire entrance folded up, and even could be folded off the top and come down the back side of the enclosure!  I also made each side double, so when it was time to make the enclosure higher for height of plants, all I had to do was fold it up!

 

I guess what im trying to say is even in 09 I read the law to say it needed to be locked and have a top, a chicken mesh top or chain link top will not take away any sun!

 

I am the type of person that thinks if it isnt mentioned in the law, it is not legal!  alot of people beleive if it isnt written in the law it must be legal!

Kinda like despenses, it doesnt say in the people's iniative any thing about despense's, there for I beleive them to be ilegal!

 

Just my 2 cnts, I dont mean no harm or judgement of your thinking of the law or any one else's, I have already had to deal with the system over possesion and use, Im realy glad I havent had to deal with the system over a grow indoors or out!

 

Peace

Jim

[Restorium2]

I'm think that there's not a single grow structure covered by chain link fence or wooden slats. 

 

Most folks are using either plastic or chicken wire. To use that is just as big a breach in FF Cavanaugh rule following as using no top at all. 

[phaquetoo]

I bet I can breech any Topped Outdoor Grow in less than 60 seconds with bolt cutters and crowbar.

 

Just like Tent City,,,,it's not the fence it's Man , cameras and the Dogs that secures the, permanent structure with base and chain link on all for sides. No Top

 

Get Real.

you could have breached mine with a pair of pliar's, I dont think chain link or the likes is for security, I think it is just another hoop for us to jump through, for s hits and giggles for the authority's!

 

Peace

[beourbud]

Jim. What function did the top serve? Security...lol

 

It is rediculous, but if you want to that's your prerogative .

 

How about landscaping netting, What security does that provide.

 

The Top is not included in the law and no one can tell me what it's function is.

 

Smh

[beourbud]

you could have breached mine with a pair of pliar's, I dont think chain link or the likes is for security, I think it is just another hoop for us to jump through, for s hits and giggles for the authority's!

 

Peace

Thank You

[Restorium2]

OK FF Cavanaugh managed to convince a consensus of our peers that an outdoor grow enclosure needs a top even though he couldn't bring himself to actually write TOP, which is a feat in itself. Congrats FF. 

 

The next question that follows is: What must that (unmentioned by name) top be made of to be legal.

 

Here's FF's wording on that;

 

enclosed on all sides, except for the base, by chain link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material .......

I want to keep this question out front for peer review.

[beourbud]

I have only heard of Leo going after visible grows, Actually warning folk that when the plant grows over the wooden fence , in this case, it is visible from the road.

 

I have to say, Leo warned this guy no less than 3 times. Before they sent the storm troopers in.

He was a Colorado transplant with multiple infractions.....he gone now

 

Has anyone been arrested for no top?

Edited April 2, 2016 by beourbud

[Restorium2]

I have only heard of Leo going after visible grows, Actually warning folk that when the plant grows over the wooden fence , in this case, it is visible from the road.

 

I have to say, Leo warned this guy no less than 3 times. Before they sent the storm troopers in.

He was a Colorado transplant with multiple infractions.....he gone now

 

Has anyone been arrested for no top?

Whether we need a top is debatable. We did that. And found that it is debatable. Most here said it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

When you add in the type of material the top must be made of then we might see some more debate. Chain link fencing or wooden slats. That's pretty darn heavy. Is it even possible for most folks? Let's see.