Going Topless Outdoor

[phaquetoo]

Good point!

 

They worded the law so everyone thinks they comply but no one ever really does if they want to get picky about it.

 

That's what law enforcement always wants; A tool for extortion.

Im going to dig up my hillbilly free grow pic's,,,I honestly did this as a joke to the wording of the law!  I added a top for 2 reasons,  1 I took it to mean it required a top (thats just my take) and I actuly doubled the sides so I could go up 4 more ft as the plants grew!

 

I just used 4 of them green fence post's that are actualy for mesh or similar wire fencing, a roll of chicken mesh, small wire to attach to post's,  I went past the entrance corner so I had a place to pop a tiny pad lock on it!

 

It truly was done as a joke, I didnt care if I got caught, I had already been thru a few possesion, smoking, issues with the authority's, I beleive I was actualy arrested 3 of the times I had Explain the law to the prosecutor's in 3 different county's!

 

I figured what the hell been doing good so far, lets play with this part of the law!

 

Un fortunatly My thieving, lying, Now drug addicted and on the run ex's A -hole son!  Got to the plants way before I got to harvest, Long story!

 

Any whoo I am on a mission to find a pic of the grow Bawahahahahahahahahaha,,,,,that dark chocolate is kicking in heavy yee haw!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

woo hooo!

 

What you think?  Legal or Not Legal.  Notice the Lock and It is fixed to the ground.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by phaquetoo

[Restorium2]

^^^^^^^^ Looks like rabbit fence. Is that 'similar' to chain link fencing or wooden slats? Depends on if the judge, prosecutor, or cops like you or not. 

 

If you were paying a contractor to put up chain link fence and they put up rabbit fence would you consider it similar and good enough? Probably not. 

[Restorium2]

I can stick my hand right through that rabbit fence. Grab a bud and run! The rectangles are too large. REJECTED.

[phaquetoo]

I can stick my hand right through that rabbit fence. Grab a bud and run! The rectangles are too large. REJECTED.

You can also cut the fence with a plain pair of pliars lmao!  It is a locked secured fence with a top in my opinion and understanding of the law!  Bawahahahahahahaha!

 

I truly dont care one way or the other, I put up the pic only as a crude lawful way to have a realy easily made (i had everything it was made of around the yard) and cost effective.

 

In my understanding of the wording in the law, this meets the required standards lol!

 

Yep it is me being a smart a ss and not caring if I got caught, I truly still think I could win in court with the right judge! 

 

luckily or unluckily It didnt get that far for me

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

I didnt germinate any of them seeds, I picked 40 lil popped seeds out of there, I just sprinckled a bunch of seeds in that dirt I got from the nieghbors garden, I only watered them once a wk and only used like one tsp of plant food that I bought at wall marts for like 2.99!

 

We truly got enough dew that summer, they actualy were thriving when I yanked them, to save them from a thief, I would rather kill it than lose it to the theif!

 

I was just looking at the top pick, I was actualy going home from camping just to unfold the fencing to double the height when I noticed a few missing, not dead, stolen missing from some one in my home lol! I was still camping so I couldnt protect them!

 

oh well schtuff happens!

 

I say legal! lol

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

^^^^^^^^ Looks like rabbit fence. Is that 'similar' to chain link fencing or wooden slats? Depends on if the judge, prosecutor, or cops like you or not. 

 

If you were paying a contractor to put up chain link fence and they put up rabbit fence would you consider it similar and good enough? Probably not. 

Not probably not,,,,,,,Absolutely Not!  lol!

 

That is just farmer fence or what ever, cow fence lol, it is simialar, I beleive if fits the chain link or similar rule!

 

Peace

[imiubu]

Anyone can go to Google Earth and see your outdoor grow. I recently looked up my home and there it was. Only shows some weeds growing in the grow area, must have been early spring.

 

Just something to think about.

 

This is new aerial view of this area in last three years

 

I recently used the "street view"  of my address and... there I was, on my front porch reading my mail while the leetle dog sunned herself.

What a creepy feeling.

[trichcycler]

sexy feet too....

[trichcycler]

Phaq,

 

that there garden is legal !

 

nay sayers don't understand the wooden slats, chain link fence bits are to KEEP THE PLANT IN,  not to keep others out, which is impossible.

these no way in h ell that plant is escaping without outside help 

[beourbud]

There is no way the law describes a top.

It plainly states wood slats.

Wooden slats would promote mold/mildew which would precipitate on the plants and contaminate them, not to mention any residue from the treating process of the wood.

Oxides from the metal chain link or similar, also would would be dripping onto the plants.

 

Debris will collect on the top and drip nasty on them as well.

 

Opaque plastic sucks and often requires supplemental light.

 

A hoop house is an indoor grow. The plants are not outdoors. You have to control the environment inside. Humidity is a huge problem.

 

An outdoor grow requires no electricity or power. Hoop house, not so much.

 

what is the function of a top?

Edited April 4, 2016 by beourbud

[phaquetoo]

There is no way the law describes a top.

It plainly states wood slats.

Wooden slats would promote mold/mildew which would precipitate on the plants and contaminate them, not to mention any residue from the treating process of the wood.

Oxides from the metal chain link or similar, also would would be dripping onto the plants.

 

Debris will collect on the top and drip nasty on them as well.

 

Opaque plastic sucks and often requires supplemental light.

 

A hoop house is an indoor grow. The plants are not outdoors. You have to control the environment inside. Humidity is a huge problem.

 

An outdoor grow requires no electricity or power. Hoop house, not so much.

 

what is the function of a top?

I totaly have no problem with anything you said, It is your take, and most likely many others,  You mention the wood slats, It is only one of the materials the say "Like" so is fencing, chain link or other like, yada yada.

 

I personaly beleive the peice of poop I built for fun, in like an hr is most def a winning case in court!  lmao!

 

I read the law and thought it over, some thing or some one in this site motivated me to make one!

 

I was already thru 3 or 4 issues with the law involving mm and won all of them,,,(if you call being arrested and spending a nite in jail, talks with prosecutor winning) so I figured I would use my 12 plant possesion rights to grow out doors, under their s hitty grey area parts of the so called mm law!

 

I didnt care if I got inspected or worse from leo over that enclosure, lol!

 

Like I said, I did beleive the law to meant a top, im not saying im right or wrong,  I was made with a top because I was  planning to go up 4 more ft, on all sides, All I would have had to do was cut a few 1" by's and strap it to posts unfold the double walls, staple the security (lol) fence up and done, pick and smoke!

 

If I wanted just a lil more sturdier set up, I would just either buy or build them kennel sections you can buy, ( im a jew boy if I can do it my self for a few bucks cheaper I do) I would still put a stupid chain link or the time of fencing on the other one, just because I read the rules that way, I was actualy expecting to deal with the law, I just wanted to be sure if it meant top or not,

 

and notice the half of 55 gal drumb they are in,,,nothing leaking on them, at least not long term, I imagine the roots would got out the many holes I drilled in the bottom!

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

Well, if the law wants a top so you can't reach over it and grab some buds then they want fence you can't reach right through and grab a bud also.

 

You have to apply the same logic through your whole assessment, not selectively apply an idea to one part and not apply it to another. 

 

So if we have tops to prevent reaching in then you have to have sides that also stop the reaching in. 

[t-pain]

i see it this way, the people who want to fight dont have to use a top .

 

everyone else, you should use a top, because its cheaper than a lawyer.

 

free the weed.

[blackhorse]

Considered pig wire for the top as it is heavy/heavy duty. Comes in 16' lengths and about 4' high.

 

Not concerned with someone sticking hand in and grabbing a bud, but climbing over the topless enclosure and taking a whole plant is my concern.

 

Ended up with chain link fencing on top. It was used and cheap.

[+Malamute]

Here is the entire definition pertaining to outdoor grows and I will highlight the points of importance. Basically a checklist:

 

Marihuana plants grown outdoors are considered to be in an enclosed, locked facility if they are not visible to the unaided eye from an adjacent property when viewed by an individual at ground level or from a permanent structure and are grown within a stationary structure that is enclosed on all sides, except for the base, by chain-link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material that prevents access by the general public and that is anchored, attached, or affixed to the ground; located on land that is owned, leased, or rented by either the registered qualifying patient or a person designated through the departmental registration process as the primary caregiver for the registered qualifying patient or patients for whom the marihuana plants are grown; and equipped with functioning locks or other security devices that restrict access to only the registered qualifying patient or the registered primary caregiver who owns, leases, or rents the property on which the structure is located.

 

 

 

1)  ...not visible to the unaided eye from an adjacent property when viewed by an individual at ground level or from a permanent structure...

2) ... grown within a stationary structure ...

3) ...enclosed on all sides, except for the base...

4) ... chain-link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material

5) .. prevents access by the general public ...

6) ... anchored, attached, or affixed to the ground;

7) ...on land that is owned, leased, or rented by either the registered qualifying patient or ....(primary caregiver)

8) ..equipped with functioning locks or other security devices that restrict access to only the registered qualifying patient or the registered primary caregiver

 

 

SO, that is a pretty long checklist to go through. LOTS of areas to flaw in.

 

1) Viewed by ANY individual from ANY permanent structure (including rooftops) without the use of binoculars basically.  Look around. This is almost impossible in any city setting without a covering of some sort.

 

2) A stationary structure means it aint moving. Pup tent grow tents likely aint gonna work.

  

 

3) Enclosed on ALL sides, EXCEPT the base.  Obviously this is what the current discussion is about.  When plainly read(to me) it literally means, ALL SIDES except the base. If the base is a side, so is the top (IMHO). And I would be more than happy to be proven wrong by some brave soul in court.

 

4) Chain link fencing/wooden slats or similar. Fairly obvious what chain link is and wooden slat privacy fencing is. The real question is what does "similar" mean.  Well, I would first venture to say "fencing" of any sort would fall into that category IF and only IF it accomplishes the other 7 points on the checklist. Such as,  prevent access and not viewable etc. I would also guess any metal bars or plywood would probably be ok as long as it accomplishes the other 7 points on the checklist.

   

5) Preventing access to the general public.  I suppose this one is the most generalized in that it will be a  judgment call. I guess access to yard and the whole curtilage issue and general lack of people being able to touch the marijuana plants.

 

6) Anchored attached or affixed to the ground. Pretty straight forward. I would guess you would want something a little more than a plastic pup tent stake holding it down. :-) Sink some posts. Maybe pour a little cement. or maybe some serious stakes.

 

7) Owning or renting the property is pretty straight forward as well. No guerrilla grows. :-)

 

8) Functioning locks and or security devices to prevent access to anyone but the grower.  This is actually another judgment call issue on what is an "other security device"  and actually preventing access to ANYONE but the grower. Preventing access is a rather broad terminology for a rather broad set of people.  I would contemplate that. No spouse or kids that live in the house or on the property can have access. I'd make sure on that one.

 

 

O well, anyhow,... just figured I would drop the point checklist for those that wish to make sure they are legal as possible.

 

 I am not an Attorney and this isn't 'legal' advice.  Just one persons view and the actual language of the law. :-)

[beourbud]

A Camel is a Horse designed by a committee.

 

A hoop house or green house is an indoor grow, especially if it is a permanent structure with a top. What distinguishes an outdoor grow is the utilization of Nature through unobstructed Sun and Wind and Rain

 

A grow with an 8ft chain link , wood slat or similar, enclosed all (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc)sides of the garden,no top and not visible from adjacent property is reasonable and no less secure that a pain of glass on your home or business.

 

A grow with wood slats on sides and top more likely qualifies as a shed or maybe a beech house in the Keys....but a outdoor grow, not so much?

 

If we are going to get serious about freeing the weed, we need to blow the top off this bullschitt.

Edited April 4, 2016 by beourbud

[trichcycler]

Here is the entire definition pertaining to outdoor grows and I will highlight the points of importance. Basically a checklist:

 

 

 

1)  ...not visible to the unaided eye from an adjacent property when viewed by an individual at ground level or from a permanent structure...

2) ... grown within a stationary structure ...

3) ...enclosed on all sides, except for the base...

4) ... chain-link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material

5) .. prevents access by the general public ...

6) ... anchored, attached, or affixed to the ground;

7) ...on land that is owned, leased, or rented by either the registered qualifying patient or ....(primary caregiver)

8) ..equipped with functioning locks or other security devices that restrict access to only the registered qualifying patient or the registered primary caregiver

 

 

SO, that is a pretty long checklist to go through. LOTS of areas to flaw in.

 

1) Viewed by ANY individual from ANY permanent structure (including rooftops) without the use of binoculars basically.  Look around. This is almost impossible in any city setting without a covering of some sort.

 

2) A stationary structure means it aint moving. Pup tent grow tents likely aint gonna work.

   grow tent.jpg

 

3) Enclosed on ALL sides, EXCEPT the base.  Obviously this is what the current discussion is about.  When plainly read(to me) it literally means, ALL SIDES except the base. If the base is a side, so is the top (IMHO). And I would be more than happy to be proven wrong by some brave soul in court.

 

4) Chain link fencing/wooden slats or similar. Fairly obvious what chain link is and wooden slat privacy fencing is. The real question is what does "similar" mean.  Well, I would first venture to say "fencing" of any sort would fall into that category IF and only IF it accomplishes the other 7 points on the checklist. Such as,  prevent access and not viewable etc. I would also guess any metal bars or plywood would probably be ok as long as it accomplishes the other 7 points on the checklist.

   

5) Preventing access to the general public.  I suppose this one is the most generalized in that it will be a  judgment call. I guess access to yard and the whole curtilage issue and general lack of people being able to touch the marijuana plants.

 

6) Anchored attached or affixed to the ground. Pretty straight forward. I would guess you would want something a little more than a plastic pup tent stake holding it down. :-) Sink some posts. Maybe pour a little cement. or maybe some serious stakes.

 

7) Owning or renting the property is pretty straight forward as well. No guerrilla grows. :-)

 

8) Functioning locks and or security devices to prevent access to anyone but the grower.  This is actually another judgment call issue on what is an "other security device"  and actually preventing access to ANYONE but the grower. Preventing access is a rather broad terminology for a rather broad set of people.  I would contemplate that. No spouse or kids that live in the house or on the property can have access. I'd make sure on that one.

 

 

O well, anyhow,... just figured I would drop the point checklist for those that wish to make sure they are legal as possible.

 

 I am not an Attorney and this isn't 'legal' advice.  Just one persons view and the actual language of the law. :-)

you have an astute observation of the obvious. thank you

[t-pain]

If we are going to get serious about freeing the weed, we need to blow the top off this bullschitt.

It's fine if you want to be yet another patient in court, maybe you'll win like Kingpinn. only took him 5 years

 

he was growing without a top.

 

and that was before they changed the law specifically for his case

[+Malamute]

you have an astute observation of the obvious. thank you

 

Heh.

 

Well, I thought people may read the thread and I thought a nice little rundown may actually help the random person aye.

 

So many never actually read the law 27 times minimum( that is what I tell people to do). 

 

 And hey, ya never know, we may actually save some people a run in with police or jail.

[beourbud]

Hey, I am not suggesting folk break the law, like the dispensary and extraction people did, I am merely pointing out how rediculous the regs are.

[dutchfarm]

Man, smoke another bowl and split some more hairs, jeesh!!!

[beourbud]

The devil is in the details.

 

Just like dispensaries there is No Mention of Top at All in the law.

 

The large indoor operations cannot compete wth Superior Organic Product grown at a fraction of the cost and literally No Overhead

 

These are the folk wanting a silly top on a garden

 

There is no hair to split. Kingpin was right All Along

 

Again, what is the function of a top on a garden......anyone?

 

Anyone who supports a top on a garden wants to restrict growing, wether by size limit or excessive regulations.

 

The law and MSP update clearly describe a gardens sides and base.

 

Who here thinks " wood slats are a reasonable top for a garden?

 

The disp lobby are pushing for things that are not in the law , dispensaries and tops on gardens.

 

Oh yah.....Free the Weed

Edited April 5, 2016 by beourbud

[Indigro]

Bob... Il take the exception on a couple of your points (ur last 2 posts on this page)...

 

1. Yes, w a greenhouse grow (say a standard gh top, w sides encased, and poss w light dep) needs to control for rh, temp and light conditions. U suggest true outdoor (no protection, open to elements) is better because you dont need to do that, control for variables that is. It is cheaper even.

 

Actually what u r pointing out is that in an open outdoor grow... You can not control for those variables. And w the climate here in MI, it is one of the worst outdoor climates for crops. Sure you can try to do it, but it is highly problematic and will never be as hospitable as other climate zones. For you to do a good job of really good quality outdoor meds (in MI)... You have to offset the climate issues. The only way to do this is w a controlled gh climate. OR, u use commercial fingicides and pesticides, and spray them regularly, on a constant rotation of multiple modes of action. You can try 'organic' sprays too, but u r less able to control, and are still routinely applying adulterants. And u will still (no matter what) have bugs and mold. Period. That is the simple underlying truth to outdoor growing.

 

2. Outdoor quality is better... Really? Not even out of mendocino is the outdoor quality on oar w indoor grown of the same strain. The only benefit to outdoor is yield. You can grow 100's of lbs, with still a pretty big price tag btw, of mediocre-ok outdoor grade nugs, some will be better than others, but none will be as good as indoor. This has to do w control of the variables, once again.

 

The only other potential benefit to quality is uv light, which should increase the cannabinoid production w/in the plant. BUT, those same uv rays stimulate mold germination and growth. So, where is the balance there? W a gh grow, and there have been college sponsored experiments, u can apply uv blocking tops to a gh and measurably reduce the mold germ rates. But again, we r talking about controlling the natural elements.

 

---

 

If u r to take outdoor growing seriously, then u need a controlled gh environment. Most of ur assertions simply arent true. And this isnt a jab at u, but it is simple real life facts relating to growing an outdoor crop in MI.

 

A top, isnt nec a bad thing, and from a control amd quality perspective, it is a good one... Even a necessary one, if doing this at a professional level of concern.

[dutchfarm]

Indigro,

I will have to differ with your opinion a bit, without having to incriminate myself too much, I have grown outdoors for "a while", I will be 62 in a couple months, for perspective. I have done indoor and outdoor. I have smoked both too. The one thing I do notice a big difference in the length of time the medicine stays with you, indoor medicine( have tried dispenseries, folks I know that grow for disp. and others who just grow indoors) does not stay "with you" lke outdoor grown, am not sure why! Occaisionally we do have issues with some white mold in the very wet autumns, just have to check your grow very regularly and destroy any mold you may see. This has only happened to me in the very wettest of years. Not going to split hairs, each to his own!! How many of you old farts smoked weed that was soaked in paraquat the DEA sprayed all over Colombia in the late 70's and early 80's??? And your worried about a bug or drop of rain the dripped off a piece of chicken wire or a moldy bud that can be trimmed off and thrown away.Like I said each to his own, one man's garbage is another man's treasure!!!

Farmer Brown