Michigan Senate Approves Medical Marijuana Tax, Regulations

[mibrains]

Taxation....

 

Not sure on this yet..

 

Since the grower and seller are separate entities they are each responsible for collection and payment of tax per transaction. If they were one company such as in Colorado they would only be responsible for taxation on what they produce and then resell because it is one transaction essentially.

 

The grower will likely pay based on wholesale distribution prices and the dispensary will pay retail but both will likely be responsible to pay taxes separately because they are separate legal entities.

[CedarSpringsCG]

What stops you from being a grower, processor, and dispensary?  It just says a grower can't be a test lab or transport, same as dispensary.  But I don't see where it says you can't be a grower and a dispensary...

 

On the taxes, I see where it says it is not food, so 6% sales, and a 3% excise tax on gross receipts at the dispensary.  I don't see taxes on the grower at all, unless I am just completely missing it...

[SFC]

Medicine in Michigan is not taxed either  CedarSprings. 

[westmich]

 

 

I am still in awe that we are unable to be a grower and a caregiver, but you have to have 2 years CG experience...  That's just beyond stupid.

 

You, as in the owner, do not have to be an experienced caregiver.  You need to hire one.  If you are a caregiver and work for a grower but do not have an interest of more than 1% of the business, you could still continue to serve your other patients.

Edited September 10, 2016 by westmich

[pergamum362]

Yah its all about the money today. Not hiding it. I dont know a single grower who has not dreamt of running a commercial operation for a living.

[pergamum362]

The way i read it, no you can only be one of the five tiers. I will have to read it again, but i took away that law enforcement aould be getting a 30 percent cut at different levels, and in the ammendmemts it is stated that excess funds wont move over to the general fund. Ive been having a hard time, my wifi has been in and out for 2 days now. Phone service is horrible in my house, five minutes to load this page.

[outsideinthecold]

At least a few growers do so for simply to know how it is grown (and for their own enjoyment). Most who do so successfully exercise some if not extreme discretion.

Edited September 10, 2016 by outsideinthecold

[cristinew]

I do not know how anyone but a millionaire could do a start up.,  BTW how does a patient label his candy and brownies?
,

[CedarSpringsCG]

The way i read it, no you can only be one of the five tiers. I will have to read it again, but i took away that law enforcement aould be getting a 30 percent cut at different levels, and in the ammendmemts it is stated that excess funds wont move over to the general fund. Ive been having a hard time, my wifi has been in and out for 2 days now. Phone service is horrible in my house, five minutes to load this page.

 

There are fees that will be handed out, but not specifically taxes, and they are limited to what the costs are shared by all people...

 

But I can't find anything that says you can't be a grower and dispensary at the same time.  Or a Grower/Processor/Dispensary is fine.  The Lab and transport are the only ones...

 

However it does say that a grower can't employ a CG.  Both Grower and Processor says you can't be, and can't employ anyone who is currently a CG, but you have to be, or hire someone that has, 2 years experience as a CG...

 

(b) While holding a license as a grower, not be a registered

 primary caregiver and not employ an individual who is

simultaneously a registered primary caregiver.

Edited September 10, 2016 by CedarSpringsCG

[+Malamute]

The dispensary bill says, if you are taking care of a sick child, you have to quit your job to take care of the child because you have to be their caregiver.  The dispensary ill says you cannot be your spouses caregiver if they have cancer.

 

Um yea...its a problem.

 Seems most people here only thought about the issue in money terms and ownership terms.  (not surprised)

 

 

[Indigro]

So a dispensary can buy from anyone, but a CG or PT can't sell it to them? That's stupid...

 

AS far as taxing goes, I don't read it that it gets taxed at each transfer. It is only taxed on the gross receipts from dispensaries, so no triple tax... We would have to have a Michigan Green tea party if they wanted to tax us 3 times. I could be wrong, but I think it is just gross receipts.

 

I am still in awe that we are unable to be a grower and a caregiver, but you have to have 2 years CG experience... That's just beyond stupid.

No... Page52, first paragraph, sec504(1)...

 

A provisioning center license authorizes the purchase or transfer of mj only from a grower or processor and sale or transfer to only a registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver.

 

---

 

Cg can only participate by buying from a dispensary, they cannot sell to them.

[+Malamute]

There are fees that will be handed out, but not specifically taxes, and they are limited to what the costs are shared by all people...

 

But I can't find anything that says you can't be a grower and dispensary at the same time.  Or a Grower/Processor/Dispensary is fine.  The Lab and transport are the only ones...

 

However it does say that a grower can't employ a CG.  Both Grower and Processor says you can't be, and can't employ anyone who is currently a CG, but you have to be, or hire someone that has, 2 years experience as a CG...

 

(b) While holding a license as a grower, not be a registered

 primary caregiver and not employ an individual who is

simultaneously a registered primary caregiver.

 

 

You are pretty much right. The multiple ownership issue has been revised many times.  So most of what people are saying was true,... at one time.

[+Malamute]

No... Page52, first paragraph, sec504(1)...

 

A provisioning center license authorizes the purchase or transfer of mj only from a grower or processor and sale or transfer to only a registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver.

 

---

 

Cg can only participate by buying from a dispensary, they cannot sell to them.

 

In the bill amending the MMMACT is where it says it.  That is what zap is saying. inconsistent.

[Indigro]

I hope milegalize still has a fighting chance. And gets that message out to everyone.

 

Otherwise, think im in the same boat as everyone else... Making do w what's available. even if u have modest goals of just eeking out a basic living (not trying to get rich off the backs of others), then this is only game in town.

 

Really truly hope milegalize has a chance still. Would like for those guys to maybe start a thread w their perspective and game plan.

[phaquetoo]

ok, so I went ahead and read this, and now I agree it is crap...  You can't be a grower and a CG?  but you have to have 2 years of CG experience to do it?  So you have to be a CG for 2 years, then tell all of your patients to screw off, and you can start growing...  that's crap.  And to have to use a secure transport, and even a CG driving to a PT has to have a transport manifest.

 

And yep, I thought we were making it easier for patients, but now we create a 1.5 year no dispensaries at all while we remove all of the CG's from the market.

 

Mal, my primary goal isn't the money.  But if I can't make a living off of it, then there is no capability for me to help more people.  So money is part of the equation of course, but do I ever expect to be filthy rich off of it?  No. 

 

Unfortunately reading the bills you are either doing it for money or not in the game.  THis is going to force a lot of people back underground for at least 2 years.

 

Yeah, which won't happen until it is legal.  It won't have to come from a pharmacy, insurance pays for massage as long as a Dr orders it, it can be the same with this...

 

Anyway, getting my letters ready to email to my representatives to tell them how I feel.  Unfortunately too late most likely.

 

Does anyone know if this leaves section 8 intact?  I wonder because they very specifically spell out transfers only to people connected through the registry, and this is just after Overholt/Bylsma where the CoA said you didn't need to register at all.  Are they changing that so you have to or have no defense?

Section 8 is still there.

 

As I understand it the break down of tax distribution is 30% to the township of operation, 40% to county of operation, 5% local county sheriff, and 25% to the state general fund.

 

If those numbers end up being accurate then 75% of the 3% sin tax will stay local.

 

Also as I understand it the 3% tax gets charged each time the cannabis moves from one tier to the next so in the end it will be 6% state sales tax plus 3% sin tax 5 times (each time it changes hands from grower to tester to blah blah blah) before a consumer touches the product.

 

Can you say $30 a gram resale?

 

Ouch...

 

I want to be a grower....i want 1500 plants....

 

I could never afford it under this system.

 

Bummer.

 

That's probably the way it's been devised from the get go.

No only the the despens pays the supplier the 3% sin tax, every one else has their own prices and they will be paying their own taxes, example you get your mm tested, the tester charges you so much and it is taxed at 6%, when the tester files their taxes they pay in their normal tax bracket!

 

Any person participating in this system in any capacity, even simply purchasing from a dispensary, is tracked in a law enforcement database. This database is exempted from FOIA, but not confidential. This is likely to cause a large number of unforeseen problems. Beware, walking into a dispensary and trying a gram is a potentially life-changing experience.

Agreed!  If you dont need to go to a provision center dont go!

 

I predict it will not go as he anticipates.

I predict c.g's and pt grows are going to be totaly phaqed with.

 

So a dispensary can buy from anyone, but a CG or PT can't sell it to them?  That's stupid...

 

AS far as taxing goes, I don't read it that it gets taxed at each transfer.  It is only taxed on the gross receipts from dispensaries, so no triple tax... We would have to have a Michigan Green tea party if they wanted to tax us 3 times.  I could be wrong, but I think it is just gross receipts. 

 

I am still in awe that we are unable to be a grower and a caregiver, but you have to have 2 years CG experience...  That's just beyond stupid.

LOL!

well we have had the law long enough to have a bunch of people with more than 2 yrs experience,  Nothing suprises me in these bills,  And the are not passed or signed yet!

 

If you stop to think about it....it only makes sense that you cannot participate in both programs.

 

As a caregiver you could only supply cannabis to your five patients.

 

As a grower you can only supply dispensaries.

 

How could the state ensure you don't blur those lines?

 

The grower is watched on live video feeds and every gram is tracked from seed to sale...a caregiver is unregulated...what's to stop them from moving products between one venue or the other? Just the honesty system and quite frankly that would not be good enough to satisfy the naysayers...

 

Water and oil...

 

They can't mix.

it isnt any different than the despenses open today, they buy from c.g and pt growers!

 

It would be like a bar going to the liquir store to refill their liquir bottles and not pay a per shot tax!

 

There will always be some that break the law for leo to phaq with.

 

Taxation....

 

Not sure on this yet..

 

Since the grower and seller are separate entities they are each responsible for collection and payment of tax per transaction. If they were one company such as in Colorado they would only be responsible for taxation on what they produce and then resell because it is one transaction essentially.

 

The grower will likely pay based on wholesale distribution prices and the dispensary will pay retail but both will likely be responsible to pay taxes separately because they are separate legal entities.

Big brother has always been waiting on how to get their $$ out of cannabiss.  Well they found a way. The grower pays their taxes based on their income, the provision center pays the 3% sin tax plus the taxes based on their income, and the pt/c.g buyer from the despense pays 6% sales tax!

 

Uncle sam is so double dipping,,,,,,,,Its all the same, we pay taxes on the money we make, we pay taxes on the money we spend! plus they get the sin tax, the liscening fee's and all the other b.s they charge every single person involved (only exemption it under ground) !

 

Same old sheat dif day!

 

What stops you from being a grower, processor, and dispensary?  It just says a grower can't be a test lab or transport, same as dispensary.  But I don't see where it says you can't be a grower and a dispensary...

 

On the taxes, I see where it says it is not food, so 6% sales, and a 3% excise tax on gross receipts at the dispensary.  I don't see taxes on the grower at all, unless I am just completely missing it...

 

Taxes on the grower are paid thru their income they have to claim. 

 

To legaly be a grower you have to pay and get your permit and show/prove seed to sale,,,,,not easy to cheat, but im sure people will and they will be put in jail for a plant!

The way i read it, no you can only be one of the five tiers. I will have to read it again, but i took away that law enforcement aould be getting a 30 percent cut at different levels, and in the ammendmemts it is stated that excess funds wont move over to the general fund. Ive been having a hard time, my wifi has been in and out for 2 days now. Phone service is horrible in my house, five minutes to load this page.

 

I agree you can only be 1 of  the tiers.  I thought I read excess would go into the general fund, but the general fund is a long way down the ladder!   I could be wrong ,,,,for sure lol!

There are fees that will be handed out, but not specifically taxes, and they are limited to what the costs are shared by all people...

 

But I can't find anything that says you can't be a grower and dispensary at the same time.  Or a Grower/Processor/Dispensary is fine.  The Lab and transport are the only ones...

 

However it does say that a grower can't employ a CG.  Both Grower and Processor says you can't be, and can't employ anyone who is currently a CG, but you have to be, or hire someone that has, 2 years experience as a CG...

 

(b) While holding a license as a grower, not be a registered

 primary caregiver and not employ an individual who is

simultaneously a registered primary caregiver.

You can only be in one of the tiers!  at least that is what I read or understood!

 

Im pretty sure alot of language will be changed before it gets to butt heads desk to sign!

 

 

 

phew  Peace

[beourbud]

The Michigan market is flush with a record crop of Cage Free Sun Grown Organic, grown by ,now seasoned ,growers

We could easily see $100 /oz. meds that will be unavailable to anyone patronizing dispensaries .

The AltMarket has been winning the WOD for 70 years, They are , have and will dominate the market.

This novice attempt to control the market is hubris.

Folk are going to go to the AltMarket, 4209 will dry up and die on the vine before it ever gets started.

We have seen this before and have overcome, over produced and outwitted the Prohibitionist

All this frenzy is short lived, much like premature ejaculation.

Supporters of these bills will be as embarrassed as there inept sexual counterparts.

 

Face it, nothing changed........Nothing will

 

Prohibition is in its last throws, this is the fknrepublicans desperate attempt to appear relevant.

 

Tell your friends , investing in Commercial Cannabis is prolonging the WOD

 

The WOD is at the end of the line, call your reps and tell them Ell No to 4209

Cage Free Cannabis Coalition

Free the Weed

[CedarSpringsCG]

Phaq, I see where they separate the Tiers, but in the law, they are really just keeping the transporter and the lab separate.  I believe just to make sure the tests are legitimate and stuff doesn't "fall off the truck"...

 

It says that a grower can't be a CG, transporter, or test lab.  Also says a dispensary can't be a transporter or test lab.  But it doesn't say a grower can't be a processor, and it doesn't say a dispensary can't be a grower or processor.  This is where big money comes in.  To keep prices down, if you only had to use transport for tests, and the tests that should be done anyway, but paid nothing for "income as a grower or processor", you pay less in fees, taxes, etc.

 

Unfortunately what this means is that unless you can afford a retail store with warehouse to grow in, and afford the grow license and dispensary license all at the same time, you aren't going to do well.

 

They said they wanted it to keep out of state money out...  But what they have done is made sure it is all done by the Colorado dispensaries.  I can't wait to call my rep and tell him he HAS to vote no.  But it is likely too late.

[pergamum362]

Phaq, I see where they separate the Tiers, but in the law, they are really just keeping the transporter and the lab separate.  I believe just to make sure the tests are legitimate and stuff doesn't "fall off the truck"...

 

It says that a grower can't be a CG, transporter, or test lab.  Also says a dispensary can't be a transporter or test lab.  But it doesn't say a grower can't be a processor, and it doesn't say a dispensary can't be a grower or processor.  This is where big money comes in.  To keep prices down, if you only had to use transport for tests, and the tests that should be done anyway, but paid nothing for "income as a grower or processor", you pay less in fees, taxes, etc.

 

Unfortunately what this means is that unless you can afford a retail store with warehouse to grow in, and afford the grow license and dispensary license all at the same time, you aren't going to do well.

 

They said they wanted it to keep out of state money out...  But what they have done is made sure it is all done by the Colorado dispensaries.  I can't wait to call my rep and tell him he HAS to vote no.  But it is likely too late.

i will need to reread the licensing section again. You are right tho, big out of state money is already here, with more coming. Cant wait to see dixie elixers(sarcasm). The small language they have in there, is a failed attempt to keep out of staters who already have a leg up, a huge leg up on michigan based entrepunuers out the start up. Its really going to be a sad fn day for us if this passes.i do know, there are many patients who could potentially benefit from it, but i believe the majority will be left out of this due to the excessive cost that will likely follow in this way over regulated and taxed emerging market. Dont count michiganders out of it yet tho.

[pergamum362]

I am going on record saying it is a major mistake for any caregiver who has a successful commercial operation to try to transition to a licensed grower under this new system. The disclosure requirements, if followed, create an enormous risk for those people. The bills that passed are designed to replace the current "illegal" dispensaries and their suppliers with new people, and to force the industry that exists to disband.

you are 100 percent right.

[+Malamute]

i will need to reread the licensing section again. You are right tho, big out of state money is already here, with more coming. Cant wait to see dixie elixers(sarcasm). The small language they have in there, is a failed attempt to keep out of staters who already have a leg up, a huge leg up on michigan based entrepunuers out the start up. Its really going to be a sad fn day for us if this passes.i do know, there are many patients who could potentially benefit from it, but i believe the majority will be left out of this due to the excessive cost that will likely follow in this way over regulated and taxed emerging market. Dont count michiganders out of it yet tho.

 

 

You can blame NPRA for the stupidity.

[NancyBotman]

The good news is that oils and eatables will finally be legal.

They are only legal before the laws take effect and once the laws do take effect, the growers / cg/ processors of the oils gotta go threw the chain gang to get it to market. Then what will the donation be? An Arm and a leg maybe? I forsee a whole lot of cg going wayyy under ground. My .02 though.....

[NancyBotman]

It still has to get approved by the house before it becomes "law".  So still some time to go. I think this is positive for caregivers. Did you know that a facility has to have a caregiver on staff with 2 years experience before they can apply for a license? Gonna be a lot of high paid caregivers running 500-1500 plant facilities.

The Act states for Class A growers fee is not to exceed 10k. (In disguise count n 10k as the fee).

[pergamum362]

So the law is "enacted" 90 days from ?? And then the first license wont/cant be issued for 360 day? Is this correct?

[+Malamute]

90 days from when the governor signs it, it goes into effect.

 

360 days from then, they start to accept applications.

 

No amount of time determined for consideration of issuance.

 

10 days after submission of application, municipality notified of application.

 

 

So, once they do finally issue a grower license some 1 year and 5 months from now if all goes as planned(yea right) , then a grower may acquire seeds clones and start growing(seed to sale tracking).  SO, after a full grow 4 monthsish?  the marijuana can be sent for testing, which if extensive will be up to 2 weeks. And if the marijuana actually passes, then it can go to a dispensary or a processor.

 

So even if everything goes as planned, , I would say the first joint wont be sold for 1 year and 9 or 10 months from now.

[t-pain]

I'm seeing lots of delays in other states dispensary law implementations.

 

more like 2-4 years... dragging feet every chance.

 

leo objections and a.g. opinions will slow down implementation . like police not returning dispensary seizures, etc.

 

what, you think schuette is going to "play ball" with this bunny muffin? hahaha