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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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Get real. The hydro stores give you advice to grow better medicine, not poison people. You are spreading false ideas that will hurt all of us growers. Ignorant, non facts, that attempt to cut us to the bone. You made all of that up. Not one tiny bit of truth in it.

hahahaha realy .Ignorant, non facts thats what this whole thread is... wow bottom line they sell to make money also.... most have never grown ... were u been ... joke right.... thats the prob on this site a lot of attacks when peps say what they feel... if u think that i have a lot ofstuff for u to try... they stock what peps want bottom line.... i like how u pick who is trust worthy and not ... u guys are just un happy looking for fights......i know many owners and the chit is on the shelf's is it not ???? gravity bush master still in shops said to cause cancer .... ive seen them selling avid under table for mites also which u need a farm permit to buy ... i think ur the one covering up my self bro... greed is every were whats ur angle..... come on attack me what ever no diff then a grade school play ground here.... oh yea every grow shop only sells whats safe there not in it for money huh.... dont know how u r but u also dont know me ive been medical before medical pot was cool lol.... i have been messed up by a car wreck and been on every thing and there also very harmful to u ...

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GrowGoddess
GrowGoddess

I agree with a lot of what you have said, but not all of it. There is another side to this coin. There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there right now treating their cancer with cannabis o

Restorium2
Restorium2

You are actually smarter than most cannabis users who depend on labs and dispensaries to tell them things. Keep using your senses to tell you what is right for your body. You are way ahead of those wh

imiubu
imiubu

I do not feel it is necessary to respond to a challenge about information presented by trying to discredit the challenger.

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Restorium2 Advanced Member

Restorium2

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hahahaha realy .Ignorant, non facts thats what this whole thread is... wow bottom line they sell to make money also.... most have never grown ... were u been ... joke right.... thats the prob on this site a lot of attacks when peps say what they feel... if u think that i have a lot ofstuff for u to try... they stock what peps want bottom line.... i like how u pick who is trust worthy and not ... u guys are just un happy looking for fights......i know many owners and the chit is on the shelf's is it not ???? gravity bush master still in shops said to cause cancer .... ive seen them selling avid under table for mites also which u need a farm permit to buy ... i think ur the one covering up my self bro... greed is every were whats ur angle..... come on attack me what ever no diff then a grade school play ground here.... oh yea every grow shop only sells whats safe there not in it for money huh.... dont know how u r but u also dont know me ive been medical before medical pot was cool lol.... i have been messed up by a car wreck and been on every thing and there also very harmful to u ...

You can say what you feel all day long. Just don't make stuff up like you did. When you say things that many of us know to be totally false, it's not going to stand here.

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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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thats funny the 1st thing i said im not trying to start anything .... but ur the first to attack for what i think and see... u know i prob helped hundreds learn to grow around here and been in tons of grow rooms setting peps straight on how to grow and what not to use and see what is on there shelf ... i dont sit on the web site trying to prove how smart i am... i help peps learn ... not bash and attack like others here..... so don't tell me i haven't seen what ive seen my man...... so dont think all r in it for ur health....

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Dr. Bob Advanced Member

Dr. Bob

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thats funny the 1st thing i said im not trying to start anything .... but ur the first to attack for what i think and see... u know i prob helped hundreds learn to grow around here and been in tons of grow rooms setting peps straight on how to grow and what not to use and see what is on there shelf ... i dont sit on the web site trying to prove how smart i am... i help peps learn ... not bash and attack like others here..... so don't tell me i haven't seen what ive seen my man...... so dont think all r in it for ur health....

 

Well I believe the question on the table for you is to produce evidence to back up your statement that a couple of things caused cancer. That is a fair question and not directed at you, but at your credibility. Why don't you just put them up? That isn't bashing, nor is it starting a fight. You made the statement, folks are questioning it, make your point with evidence.

 

Dr. Bob

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Restorium2 Advanced Member

Restorium2

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thats funny the 1st thing i said im not trying to start anything .... but ur the first to attack for what i think and see... u know i prob helped hundreds learn to grow around here and been in tons of grow rooms setting peps straight on how to grow and what not to use and see what is on there shelf ... i dont sit on the web site trying to prove how smart i am... i help peps learn ... not bash and attack like others here..... so don't tell me i haven't seen what ive seen my man...... so dont think all r in it for ur health....

I go to a few hydro stores and what you said wasn't true at any of them. And what you said about testing was totally made up. I attack 'hurtful' bad information whenever I can. You laid out a pile of it.

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Restorium2 Advanced Member

Restorium2

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hows that?????/

TERRIBLE!

 

You didn't even read that the moderator thought the thread was BS?

 

Moderator Note: Please note that this is NOT Humboldt Nutrients, the company whose products you normally see in grow shops. This poison is from a small company, operating out of a garage, obviously stealing name recognition from the good company.

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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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TERRIBLE!

 

You didn't even read that the moderator thought the thread was BS?

 

Moderator Note: Please note that this is NOT Humboldt Nutrients, the company whose products you normally see in grow shops. This poison is from a small company, operating out of a garage, obviously stealing name recognition from the good company.

u should know more on what ur doing ..... yup beleave a mod on a site over this http://www.manicbotanix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27&Itemid=1 ... right now thats not smart or even worth it id say if ur so worried about every ones health ... im just trying to help a aggressive crowd here.... and change the tempo a bit to see there all around us....

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Restorium2 Advanced Member

Restorium2

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u should know more on what ur doing ..... yup beleave a mod on a site over this http://www.manicbota...&id=27&Itemid=1 ... right now thats not smart or even worth it id say if ur so worried about every ones health ... im just trying to help a aggressive crowd here.... and change the tempo a bit to see there all around us....

I believe the moderator on roll it up because they were right. Totally right, and a 'stand up' individual that uses their head, attacking bad information. You should be thanking them if you were wanting real information getting to growers like you say. You are going directly against what you say you are trying to do.

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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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Phosphoload, Gravity, Bushmaster, Topload, and Flower Dragon Lab Test Results!

To this day many nutrient manufacturers have not disclosed the active or "secret" ingredients of their questionable products. We are told this is to keep any trade secrets from getting out but its fairly well known that any 'secrets' in this business are old news in the horticulture/agronomy department. People are buying products without any knowledge or concern of what said products contain. I know too many growers that moaned when Phosphoload was banned and when Gravity was taken off the shelves. Whether you use marijuana for recreational or medicinal use, its ridiculous to take a largely harmless plant and spray chemicals on it that are not allowed on food crops that can make your plant harmful if consumed.

Im a bit of a Blackstone libertarian in that i think if you want to hurt yourself, you can go ahead and do it as long as you harm no others. However many of the people buying these products and spraying their plants with these harmful chemicals DO NOT grow for just their own needs. Many provide to dispensaries where their chemical sprayed product is SOLD AS MEDICINE, or to an illicit market where unsuspecting buyers are consuming a product that's more harmful than they've come to know. Marijuana is by astronomical proportions the most consumed somewhat-illicit substance in the world, and that's because its comparatively a harmless substance with many [potential] health benefits. But once you start spraying your cannabis with some of these plant growth regulators/retardants (PGR's) and systemic fungicides and insecticides (but that's a whole separate discussion), you're creating a potentially harmful product and providing it to a large group of consumers/patients who are unwittingly consuming marijuana that's now more harmful to consume than in the history of its existence.

We've all heard that nobody has died from smoking weed. Well, with a new standard of harmful PGR's and systemics sweeping through the growers community, i think that might change soon. there has already been a medical marijuana/AVID related death. Its just a matter of time before peoples health starts getting compromised form the consumption of these mystery PGR products and systemics.

 

The following attachments were provided to me by G. Low, author of Integral Hydroponics and the co/owner of integralhydro.com and manicbotanix.com, with the expressed permission to post said given attachments. The attachments are lab test results of PGR concentration of different "mystery" growth regulating products like Phosphoload, Gravity, Flower Dragon etc. Thank you G for all your personal endeavors in fighting the good fight against the PGR Peddlers

Attached Thumbnails

Click image for larger version Name: flowerdragonLabanalysis.jpg Views: 22 Size: 164.7 KB ID: 133326 Click image for larger version Name: FlowerDragonCDFA.jpg Views: 17 Size: 118.3 KB ID: 133329

Attached Files

File Type: pdf Phosphoload_Lab.pdf (483.8 KB, 19 views)

File Type: pdf GravityFlowerHardener.pdf (483.0 KB, 25 views)

File Type: pdf Bushmaster.pdf (37.1 KB, 14 views)

File Type: pdf TopLoad.pdf (479.4 KB, 4 views)

File Type: pdf FlowerDragon_test2.pdf (484.7 KB, 4 views)

File Type: pdf FlowerDragon_Lab_Test.pdf (485.8 KB, 6 views)

File Type: pdf FlowerDragon_Recall_SS.pdf (499.5 KB, 10 views)

 

 

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Lab Testing Results courtesy of integralhydro.com

Bushmaster: 271ppm Paclobutrazol

Gravity: 516ppm Paclobutrazol

Flower Dragon: 18,400-18,650ppm Daminozide, 30-46.3ppm Paclobutrazol

Phosphoload: 17,800ppm Daminozide, 20.6ppm Paclobutrazol

TopLoad: 3,467ppm Daminozide

 

Next post

 

This was written by G. Low, the provider of the above attachments.

 

****************************** ******************************

 

The Daminozide Money Trail

 

Let’s analyze for a moment how much money is made by those promoting PGRs as “rare earth elements”, “citrates”, “arginates”, “quinalone” (a new one to me), “humatic isolates”, “kelp” etc to unsuspecting consumers.

 

The math…

 

1 gram of pure substance in 1L equates to 1000ppm. Given Flower Dragon contains 18,400ppm of Daminozide this equates to 18.4 grams per litre of Daminozide at 100% purity in 1L (solute (Daminozide) + solvent (water) = 1L).

 

Recently, for the purpose of this article, I priced purchasing 100Kg of Daminozide from a Chinese supplier. The product was 850 grams a kilo Daminozide or 85% purity.

 

Next….

 

To achieve 18,500ppm of Daminozide in solution with the Chinese product it would require 21.76g/L. Based on this, 1Kg of 85% Daminozide would produce 45.95 litres of Flower Dragon. The price of the Chinese product at 100Kg was $97.00 USD per Kg. Add shipping and other costs to this and we could conservatively estimate that Daminozide costs ex China $98.50 USD per kilo landed in BC, Canada where Flower Dragon is produced. Let’s be generous and make that $100 USD per 1Kg of Daminozide. Therefore, 100 Kg of Daminozide costs $10,000 USD ex China to BC. Don’t get hung up on the math. It’s largely irrelevant. The end result is the important thing (for those of you wishing to check my math feel free).

 

Okay, so we know that 1Kg of 85% Daminozide produces $45.95 litres of Flower Dragon and 1Kg of Daminozide costs $100 USD. Therefore 1L of Flower Dragon requires $2.17 of Daminozide (I.e. 100 ÷ 45.95 = $2.17 USD).

 

Let’s also add twenty cents in Paclobutrazol (PBZ being cheap and used at low levels), $1.00 per plastic bottle used in production and $1.50 for labels. Total cost to produce 1L of Flower Dragon = $4.87 (round that off to $5.00 for ridiculously low levels of P and K that are also added in production).

 

Next….

 

100 kilo of 85% purity Daminozide makes 4595.5 litres of Flower Dragon or 4595.5 1L bottles of saleable product. Total cost to produce equals $22, 977 USD based on $5.00 per bottle estimate.

 

Next….

 

Flower Dragon retails in the US for $120.00. We have 4595.5 1L bottles each retailing for $120.00. 4595.5 x $120.00 = $551,460.00 from an initial investment of $22, 977. Therefore, the profit made along the way equates to $528,483.00 or roughly 2,300%.

 

Next….

 

Wholesalers typically mark up products 30% and retailers typically have markups of 100% on consumables. Based on this, Flower Dragon is sold to the wholesalers for about $45.00 (a $40.00 profit for Envy Plant Products or a 900% profit and $40 x 4595.5 = $183,820.00 on 100Kg of Daminozide = $165,4380.00 in profits); wholesalers then sell to retailers at $60.00 (4595.5 x $20 = $91,910) and finally retailers Flower Dragon to consumers for $120.00 (4595.5 x $60 = $275, 730).

 

Wow!!

 

Of course, I’ve oversimplified this somewhat because people have rents etc to pay. The aim, however, is to demonstrate the vast sums of money that are made through the sales of these products.

 

What is most important to note here is the vast amount of profits generated all flow to the top of the Daminozide pyramid. That is, wholesalers make 30%, retailers make 100% and Steve Berlow et al make 900% on 100% of all Flower Dragon sales across the US et al. Technically speaking, this amounts to millions of dollars earned very quickly from lies, more lies, more lies, and Daminozide.

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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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yea all made up u beleave a mod over science huh....if thats the case leave pb alone u gave no proff and way less then me on this i showed u prof show me pb oil in the same way please.... this isnt about the oil but inur mind set on what u say is law but u wount beleave what u see as u must use gravity and bush master to make up for what ur plants wont do .... or u wouldn't be fighting the writings from them.... go ahead u chose what to be leave and use... to me that's enough not to use when theirs doubt...... but go a head.... i see u still dont understand they r two diff company's.... both big

Edited by kak
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SFC Advanced Member

SFC

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Apple growers in Washington filed a libel suit against CBS, NRDC and Fenton Communications, claiming the scare cost them $100 million.[6] The suit was dismissed in 1994.[7]

While Alar has been verified as a human carcinogen, the amount necessary for it to be dangerous may well be extremely high.[8] The lab tests that prompted the scare required an amount of Alar equal to over 5,000 gallons (20,000 L) of apple juice per day.[6]Consumers Union ran its own studies and estimated the human lifetime cancer risk to be 5 per million, as compared to the previously-reported figure of 50 cases per million.[9] Generally, EPA considers lifetime cancer risks in excess of 1 per million to be cause for action.[10]

Elizabeth Whelan and her organization, the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), which had received $25,000 from Alar's manufacturer,[11] worked to establish a narrative of the Alar episode as a scare. The ACSH claimed that Alar and its breakdown product UDMH had not been shown to be carcinogenic. Whelan's campaign was so effective that today, "Alar scare" is shorthand among news media and food industry professionals for an irrational, emotional public scare based on propaganda rather than facts. There remains disagreement about the appropriateness of the response to Alar, but daminozide is classified as a probable human carcinogen by the EPA and is listed as a known carcinogen under California's Prop 65,[11] while its breakdown product UDMH is listed as Prop 65 carcinogen and IARC classifies it as "possible" carcinogen and EPA as a "probable" carcinogen.[12]

[edit]References

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SFC Advanced Member

SFC

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Also most growers that have used bushmaster or gravity are not "spraying" it on their plants. They are giving them a very small amount mixed in with the nutrients. Like for bushmaster, 1/2 to 1 tsp per 5 gallons, at the transition from veg to flower and then it is flushed. According to these numbers it hardly seems like a case for cancer considering no flowers have even started yet. I would be curious of a real test to see if there is any residual Alar left in the finished product and if so what concentration.

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kak1963 Advanced Member

kak1963

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Also most growers that have used bushmaster or gravity are not "spraying" it on their plants. They are giving them a very small amount mixed in with the nutrients. Like for bushmaster, 1/2 to 1 tsp per 5 gallons, at the transition from veg to flower and then it is flushed. According to these numbers it hardly seems like a case for cancer considering no flowers have even started yet. I would be curious of a real test to see if there is any residual Alar left in the finished product and if so what concentration.

thanks very good read... but if both sides r claiming diff who do we go with ???? i just dont use it to be safe myself.... thanks again.... and ur right i also would like to see tests on residual and how long it stays in the plant my self... good thinking... i couldn't tell u my self... just wanted to bring the info here to show we relay don't know whats in other things also we could or do use...

Cutting and pasting what you don't understand isn't enlightening anyone.

what the heck did sfc just do???? ur a piece of work man....how do u know what i understand and don't???? the only thing ur enlightening is ur ego ... how the heck should i have done it king Restorium???? seems theirs tons of cut and paste on this site.... oh i should have just typed it all would that have been better u nit picker???? u relay r a angry one aren't u ... now ur attacking on cut and paste to save ur pride hahahaha... funny boy.... wow u would think u would want to get to the truth Rather then attack... and from what i read that's about all u bring to the table here..... relay don't matter to me what u use but if in doubt don't use i feel.... im not a doctor or a scientist so reading is how i find out... r you???? u must be one of the 2 or u just read also on things like that.... get off your high horse..... and try talking rather then cheap shots... other then that dont frick with me and i wont respond to ur attacks also have a gr8 day ....

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CaveatLector Advanced Member

CaveatLector

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We have had a law passed that states cannabis and preparations of cannabis are approved for use against specific conditions in Michigan.

 

It is the voters that made the claim.

 

In doing so, the law placed such things outside of those controls.

Tell me .. how do you apply for a new condition without making a medical claim?

 

My god man, engage in logical fallacies much? None of what you are saying has anything to do FDA regulations. None. It matters not what Michigan has decided you still must comply with FDA regulations.

 

Secondly, obfuscation is clearly the order of the day here. Doctors recommending something is NOT them making a medical claim for something they are selling. Applying for a new medical condition is not making a medical claim for something someone is selling. The issue here is not the claim. You cannot separate the claim from the act of selling the product. No one said you cannot make a medical claim. What was said was you cannot make a medical claim regarding something you are selling unless it is proven AND unless it is regulated as a drug by the FDA. Do you get that difference? It isn't subtle my man. Your illogical reasoning is an attempt to to turn my statement into something that it is not.

 

Thirdly, whether someone makes a medical claim in an effort to add a new condition has no bearing on whether FDA regulations apply. Do you get that? Even if we took your illogical reasoning for granted (that people couldn't apply for new conditions because they can't make a medical claim) then I still ask so what? That's like saying federal law doesn't apply to marijuana because, well, how can it? If it does then Michigan law is meaningless. Oh man!!! Your reasoning fails absolutely.

 

Lastly, you have some chutzpah crying that people are trying to steal from you by telling you that you are subject to labelling requirements of the FDA. I suppose those requirements should apply to everyone EXCEPT those named peanut? If making and selling that oil is all that can support you then may I suggest you diversify? I think you can get a dental assistant certificate in 4 months in Michigan. They make a living wage. What you are telling us is that all you can do to survive is sell this concotion. You further imply that you will not be able to make a living with it if you comply with federal label regulations. Then you blame everyone here for pointing out that you are subject to those regulations. You are so picked-on aren't you? Why oh why should peanut have to comply with regulations designed to help insure consumer safety? And why do I, and others, have to point out that you are subject to those regulations? Oh yes, you already answered that. It's because we want to steal your secret formula and sell it to big pharma and make our millions. Has the world ALWAYS been out to get you?

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