If my spouse is my caregiver can I be in room?

[ALD]

I currently have a caregiver, but my husband would really like to take over as my caregiver and set up a grow area in our basement. I know everything has to be locked away, but if I am my husbands only patient (so he has less than 12 plants) can I be in the room to help with harvest?

[Restorium2]

Yes you can. It's just when a caregiver has more than one patient that access becomes a problem for a patient. 

[bax]

resto is simplifying the issue too much.

its kind of a complicated issue.

lets go through it real quick here.

You (patient)
your husband (caregiver)

only one of you is allowed to possess 12 plants. in this case, only one of you would be allowed to be in the grow room.

now here is another situation, which may work for you.

you (patient, but keeps possession of plants on the LARA form)
husband (caregiver, not allowed to possess plants)

then only you would be allowed in the grow room.

different way to do this

you (patient, keep possession of plants)
husband (caregiver to you, patient himself, keep possession of plants)

now both of you would be able to be in the grow room, since you are both allowed to possess 12 plants.


if your husband does not have a qualifying condition than the above situation would of course not work for you and your husband.

there is one more situation that might work better for you.

you (patient, cant keep plants)
husband (caregiver, can keep plants)

the husband waters, cultivates, grows the plants.
then he cuts the plants down when the plants are ready to harvest.

as soon as the plant is no longer living, it is an amount of marihuana. it is no longer a plant if it is not in growth material or living.

then you are free to possess it and help trim etc.



the reason this is important is there were 3 cases in the court of appeals and supreme court of michigan.

people v bob said husband and wife could not grow together, because the total of the 21 plants was more than the 12 plants each could possess.

people v bylsma said 3 caregivers could not grow together because the total of the 88 plants was more than the total 72 plants that is a maximum number of plants a caregiver could possess if they had all 5 patients plus themselves.

people v mazur said a wife could not help her husband cultivate if she was not a patient. she merely wrote down some numbers on a post-it note that was found on a plant. this case went to the michigan supreme court. where it was found that any device or item used for marijuana cultivation was paraphernalia and thus legal under section 4 of the MMMA.

so , its complicated.

but in general, if you want to be in the grow room of 12 plants, your card better say "allowed to possess plants" for you to be in there.

there maybe another issue that a grow room is only allowed to be either a patient OR a caregiver, but not both. but this issue has not been fully found in the courts yet.

in reality, as long as you dont talk to the police without a lawyer at all, dont tell no one about you being in a grow room , and your grow room door automatically closes and locks and only one person has the key (or combination lock) then really you should be fine.

otherwise to be 100% safe, wait for plants to be cut and dead. then you can trim and dry away!

[ALD]

Thank you for the responses. Now the fun begins... starting from scratch. 

Does anyone know where I could get some high CBD clones?

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Bottom line here:  Who in the heck is going to know if you go into the room, touch the plants (oh no!!), or whatever else you do in your house?

I believe that the law says a patient can be in the caregivers grow room and... CAN ACTUALLY TOUCH THE PLANTS!

How absurd. You can smoke the stuff, eat the stuff, fill your bathtub up with it and roll around in it, but you can't be in the presence of a live, growing plant? WTF? Absurd...

[Restorium2]

The heart of the problem is that caregivers are cleared to possess more than 12 and patients are not. Work outwards from there and you see where the prosecutors hang their hats.

I like to keep things as simple as possible so I reduced it to it's lowest common denominator. 

[t-pain]

footnote 45 of people v kolanek also mentions the patient OR caregiver bit.

 

45 Because we have concluded that a defendant need not establish the requirements of § 4
in order to satisfy the elements of the § 8 affirmative defense, we need not address the
Court of Appeals’ holding that Kolanek did not satisfy the “enclosed, locked facility”
requirement of § 4. However, to provide some guidance, we note that courts considering
whether a defendant’s plants were kept in an “enclosed, locked facility” should focus on
whether the security device functions to “permit access only by a registered primary
caregiver or registered qualifying patient.” MCL 333.26423(c) (emphasis added).

[AmishRnot4ganja]

2 hours ago, t-pain said:

footnote 45 of people v kolanek also mentions the patient OR caregiver bit.

 

45 Because we have concluded that a defendant need not establish the requirements of § 4
in order to satisfy the elements of the § 8 affirmative defense, we need not address the
Court of Appeals’ holding that Kolanek did not satisfy the “enclosed, locked facility”
requirement of § 4. However, to provide some guidance, we note that courts considering
whether a defendant’s plants were kept in an “enclosed, locked facility” should focus on
whether the security device functions to “permit access only by a registered primary
caregiver or registered qualifying patient.” MCL 333.26423(c) (emphasis added).

Note the use of the word "a" vs. "the" in describing who may be in a grow room.

[bax]

i think the courts focus on the "only" and "or" bits more.

[Restorium2]

A caregiver gets a background check and a patient doesn't. Therefore a patient gets to access only a specific 12 and a caregiver can access up to 72 because of the background check. All the rest is total BS by who ever wants to sling the BS. 

[Restorium2]

True. Although I have to say it makes no sense that a patient be unauthorized to be near a plant that they are authorized to have everything that comes from it. The only legal purpose the plant has is to supply the patient who created the authorization in the first place.  

[Restorium2]

The premise that when someone is a room they are considered to be in actual 'possession' of everything in the room is a stretch that only a bad prosecutor would make. 

If the card said access and no access that would dictate the actual access. Being in a room with, or having access, doesn't mean actual possession.

If you put on your common sense prosecutor hat then it all comes down to the criminal background check and having access to actual numbers of plants a person is cleared for.

Every qualified patient has the right to access 12 plants regardless of their criminal background. That's the law. Not more than 12 though. That requires passing the proper background check.

 

 

[Griga1]

I have my cultivation license and my mmj card to and so does my husband and I'm his care giver how many plants am I aloud and sence were husband and wife how do I lable the plants I just realized that this is Michigan not mo

Edited February 3, 2020 by Griga1

[garyfisher]

On 2/5/2018 at 3:53 PM, ALD said:

I currently have a caregiver, but my husband would really like to take over as my caregiver and set up a grow area in our basement. I know everything has to be locked away, but if I am my husbands only patient (so he has less than 12 plants) can I be in the room to help with harvest?

 

On 2/6/2018 at 7:37 AM, Restorium2 said:

Yes you can. It's just when a caregiver has more than one patient that access becomes a problem for a patient. 

Ask Bob Reddin how that turned out for him...

The answer is NO.  The law states that only the caregiver has access to the plants.

[garyfisher]

2 hours ago, Griga1 said:

I have my cultivation license and my mmj card to and so does my husband and I'm his care giver how many plants am I aloud and sence were husband and wife how do I lable the plants I just realized that this is Michigan not mo

what state are you in?  

[Restorium2]

2 hours ago, garyfisher said:

 

Ask Bob Reddin how that turned out for him...

The answer is NO.  The law states that only the caregiver has access to the plants.

She clearly stated that less than 12 plants will be involved. That's the important detail you missed. With Michigan versus Reddin their were more than 12 plants involved. 

but if I am my husbands only patient (so he has less than 12 plants) can I be in the room to help with harvest?

[garyfisher]

Sure, Well if I had a card that said I'm not allowed to possess plants, I wouldn't be caught in a room full of plants.  You people can do whatever you want.

 

[Kingdiamond]

3 hours ago, garyfisher said:

Sure, Well if I had a card that said I'm not allowed to possess plants, I wouldn't be caught in a room full of plants.  You people can do whatever you want.

 

Yeah my understanding is that only the person  who  has possession of the plants is allowed in the grow area.

[Restorium2]

Get a grip! EVERYBODY that is an adult in Michigan can be in a room with 12 plants. She is asking if she can be in a room with 12 plants in her own house in Michigan where 12 plants are legal.

What are you thinking? Are you taking away rights now from patients?

It's not a ROOM FULL OF PLANTS. It's a room with 12 LEGAL MARIJUANA plants in it. Don't be worried until you get over twelve. 

EVERYBODY that is an adult in Michigan can harvest 12 plants whether or not they are authorized medically to possess 12 medical plants or not. We are free to do that now. No doubt about it. Exercise your brains and your rights. Think of how you are legal. If it's 12 or less at an address then you are legal. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

12 hours ago, garyfisher said:

Sure, Well if I had a card that said I'm not allowed to possess plants, I wouldn't be caught in a room full of plants.  You people can do whatever you want.

 

So you actually think that it's illegal for her to be around 12 plants here in Michigan? Seriously? The card actually took away her legal rights then?

 

[semicaregiver]

Considering the recreational law allows you to have 12 plants in a house is any of this caregiver/patient access really a question anymore?   One might argue that yes you are a patient and your partner is a caregiver, but no medical is being grown.  The 12 are recreational, you have just retained your cards so you can go to a medical dispensary for forms other than flower.

[Restorium2]

The first line of defense here would be that you have 12 at a premises and it not anyone's business past that unless someone is trying to ascertain a minor has access. Do what you want with them. 

So the answer is plainly; Yes, you can be around them and help harvest, of course. 

[Kingdiamond]

So its your opinion  that the recreational law  can piggyback or alter the  medical marijuana law ?

[Restorium2]

It's my opinion that everybody that is an adult in Michigan can be around the 12 plants in their own house while they are being harvested by a family member. 

That was the question asked and answered. 

Being a patient with a caregiver doesn't take away that basic right. To go any further with it is just micromanaging someone beyond being reasonable. 

[Restorium2]

17 minutes ago, Kingdiamond said:

So its your opinion  that the recreational law  can piggyback or alter the  medical marijuana law ?

The recreational law takes away the crime of having access to 12 plants. We start at a different baseline now with that law in place.