Abrogate Prohibition Michigan Ballot Question Committee Amendment...

[Norby]

You say you don't trust what you buy at the supermarket but that somehow cannabis purchased through a licensed facility will be safe.

 

Maybe your neuroleptics need adjusting.

Umm, I never said that.  Could you point it out, getting sick of bad accusations.

Stuff from the store can be washed off, mj isn't.  Some foods have skins, shells, hulls etc. and keep the pesticides away from what you eat.  veggies grow out in the rain and get washed off whenever it rains.  I could go on if you'd like.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Norby

[Smallbiz]

I am not against being able to grow 8 acres tho just not realistic.

[Norby]

what is wrong with you growing 8 acres of tomatoes or 8 acres of cannabis?

 

is there a difference? what is the difference?

If you are growing 8 acres of tomatoes, they will have to be open to random testing unless you are selling that many to end consumers.  Mj under abrogate, won't.

[t-pain]

What is the dif really? 200 cans of tomato sauce to 200 jars of cannabis butter. Come on that is not realistic is it.

are you saying the only difference is in price?

 

they are both plants.

 

are you making some kind of argument that a large business is bad but a small business is good?

or that you would rather have a law that limits cannabis production to personal and small business only?

 

having a limit on plants is a legitimite concern. i am just curious.

i dont think anyone has done a poll on abrogating all regulations on cannabis ,thats why i'm asking what your position is in detail.

[Smallbiz]

I'm not sure what I'm saying, it all just sounds crazy to me. I re read the proposal and people can let their children use cannabis, is this true? That is gona be a hard sale. If I'm wrong please tell me.

[Norby]

And that's all the time I have for efforts in futility.  It seems to me that "the other side" of me only wants to run me around in circles and waste my time.  i've had rebuttals for everything thrown at me while the other side is just deniers, not even skeptics because skeptics come to the table with at least some stats, tests that they didn't set up for a specific outcome themselves, or at least some understanding of logic that can be shown.  They've shown, to me anyway, that they are just cheerleaders for "the cause" whatever that is.  My cause is truth and transparency.  Here you just want to cover stuff up and have people just believe your word.

Good day, i have better things to do.

[t-pain]

The 'decriminalize one ounce ordinances'  passing or losing in Michigan are coming in at around 10% under the percentage that the same municipalities voted for the MMMAct.

 

Generally, a very small insignificant decrim of one ounce would run around 52.7% statewide.

 

Where these other proposals ends up is anyones guess.

to piggyback on this, heres the totals for the legalization votes in the other states so far:

oregon 56% https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Legalized_Marijuana_Initiative,_Measure_91_(2014)

colo 55% https://ballotpedia.org/Colorado_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_Amendment_64_(2012)

alaska 53% https://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Marijuana_Legalization,_Ballot_Measure_2_(2014)

wash 55% https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Marijuana_Legalization_and_Regulation,_Initiative_502_(2012)

 

i'm not going to count DC's vote as it is a completely different scale and political makeup than the rest of the country.

[t-pain]

I'm not sure what I'm saying, it all just sounds crazy to me. I re read the proposal and people can let their children use cannabis, is this true? That is gona be a hard sale. If I'm wrong please tell me.

you are correct. abrogate would allow a parent to give permission for his child to grow/smoke weed.

 

i agreeeee , it will be a hard sale.

 

but this also would be the first and only legalization/decrim law that would protect children from criminal penalties for using marijuana. no other legalization law proposal has (to my knowledge) protected minors from marijuana charges.

 

i might be wrong, milegalize says this about people under 18:

An individual under the age of 18 who violates

any Section of this act may be issued a civil

infraction with a civil fine of up to $500.00.

 

so no charges but a fine.

[Smallbiz]

Does anyone else see a problem with this K-12 thing, I mean K?

[t-pain]

its to ensure that medical marijuana still exists, smallbiz.

because abrogate might destroy the MMMA.

 

allow child to use cannabis for epilepsy, cancer etc etc

 

i'm surprised people arent upset that abrogate would destroy the mmma.

[Smallbiz]

Sorry for the Q's can you explain"might destroy"? If it passed would the mmma still exist and to what extent.

[t-pain]

if abrogate passes, there would be a question as to the mmma and if it would now be "unconstitutional".

 

it would be brought into court and the court would rule if the mmma could exist or not alongside of abrogate.

 

i have no idea if the mmma could be construed with abrogate, but i do not think so. thats why milegalize and mcc both have sentences saying it leaves the mmma intact.

 

 

as to resto's previous comment about the supreme court being "better than the legislature". well thats on medical marijuana laws. this would be legalization law. what if the supreme court goes full against legalization and rules that "sales" are not allowed in abrogate because it does not specifically state sales?

 

in essence, the supreme court could rule that mmma is unconstitutional and that abrogate doesnt protect people from arrests for sales or other nonsense laws like duid or improper transport or any number of other anti-marijuana laws they havent thought of yet.

[Smallbiz]

Thanks T for answers.

[Smallbiz]

I didn't see anything about the MMMA in the proposal?

It's not very long am I missing something?

Edited January 3, 2016 by Smallbiz

[t-pain]

i meant the milegalize and mcc proposals have mmma wording.

 

abrogate does not have mmma wording.

 

three different proposals going on all at once, gets confusing...

[Smallbiz]

Yep thanks

[imiubu]

If you are growing 8 acres of tomatoes, they will have to be open to random testing unless you are selling that many to end consumers.  Mj under abrogate, won't.

I think what you may be missing here Norby is that there are already rules and regulations in place for all your concerns.

Why must any 'extra' be in place for cannabis?

 

Speaking for myself only... I find that it's difficult for me sometimes to think outside of the prohibition indoctrination.

Once I let that thinking slide away, I see more clearly and realistically.

 

The tomato has been used so often in this debate and perhaps it's difficult for us under oppression for so many years to

fully understand this comparison?

I would prefer to use other herbs ie; Echinacea, Feverfew, St. John's Wart, Bilberry, Burdock, Cranberry, Blueberry, Cayenne,

Chamomile, Clove, Dandelion, Elderberry, Evening Primrose, Eucalyptus, Flax Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Ginkgo, Hibiscus, Horsetail,

Horse Chestnut, Lavender, Marigold, Milk Thistle, Neem, Oregano, Peppermint, Rosemary, Sage, Thyme, Turmeric, Valerian Root,

Verbena, Watercress, White Willow....

 

and so on... in comparison.

 

Many of these herbs/ plants are toxic. What regulations are there in place for these 'herbals' ?

 

Why should cannabis be treated any differently? 

 

Because we have prohibition pounded in our brains and can't see past that ?

 

 

 

@ Norby... idc who started what, and consider that kind of argument as an excuse for acting

out poorly, rather juvenile also. 

 

I'm not just singling out Norb here either... so folks, if the shoe fits...

 

We are suppose to be adults.

[+Malamute]

If I were to be honest,

 

 I would fully legalize cannabis and then prohibit any commercial sale.

 

 Problems solved.  The market will crash to the point it is dam near free. No whoores make all the money. Testing is just for fun.  There will be so much pot there wont be any need for any stores whatsoever.

 

So yea,... Unfortunately, i would make commercial sales illegal.  Sure solves a lot of problems and nonsense.

 

 Pot is for people, Not for profit.

[+Malamute]

Let me also add, that a FULL screening for all pesticides, molds, fungus, bacterias etc is around $1500.

 

The main lab in Michigan didn't  actually test for molds and such. They simply looked at it under a scope. The same lab that came up with that story mentioned earlier about street weed etc.

[t-pain]

right because a bacteria test requires you to swab the bud across a petri dish and incubate it for 2 weeks and see if anything grows.

 

what is the "real" test for mold/fungus?

 

not the stupid visual test. is there even one?

[+Malamute]

Standard plate as you said. They have accelerated it to like 3 days now.

 

It is the pesticide testing that costs so much, at least if you expect a thorough test.

 

Now, when doing a test per crop/batch, $1500 isn't a big deal(10-100lbs); nor is it very accurate.

 

The average person can visually detect 'signs' of mold and fungus and bug poop with an aided visual test(scope, loupe).

 

To me, 'testing' is a marketing tool in a commercial atmosphere.

 

 Such as organic, hydroponic, type of fertilizers etc etc.

[phaquetoo]

I think what you may be missing here Norby is that there are already rules and regulations in place for all your concerns.

Why must any 'extra' be in place for cannabis?

 

Speaking for myself only... I find that it's difficult for me sometimes to think outside of the prohibition indoctrination.

Once I let that thinking slide away, I see more clearly and realistically.

 

The tomato has been used so often in this debate and perhaps it's difficult for us under oppression for so many years to

fully understand this comparison?

I would prefer to use other herbs ie; Echinacea, Feverfew, St. John's Wart, Bilberry, Burdock, Cranberry, Blueberry, Cayenne,

Chamomile, Clove, Dandelion, Elderberry, Evening Primrose, Eucalyptus, Flax Seed, Garlic, Ginger, Ginkgo, Hibiscus, Horsetail,

Horse Chestnut, Lavender, Marigold, Milk Thistle, Neem, Oregano, Peppermint, Rosemary, Sage, Thyme, Turmeric, Valerian Root,

Verbena, Watercress, White Willow....

 

and so on... in comparison.

 

Many of these herbs/ plants are toxic. What regulations are there in place for these 'herbals' ?

 

Why should cannabis be treated any differently? 

 

Because we have prohibition pounded in our brains and can't see past that ?

 

 

 

@ Norby... idc who started what, and consider that kind of argument as an excuse for acting

out poorly, rather juvenile also. 

 

I'm not just singling out Norb here either... so folks, if the shoe fits...

 

We are suppose to be adults.

I dont see any one else's name with @ before it!

 

I would say that as far as this thread goes it is tamer than most when there is a disagreement, The other mods are involved in the discussion, I dont think zap needs you to stick up for him!

 

Let us not forget where we come from!

 

Peace

[bobandtorey]

Thank you and happy new years too you and all

 

Why should cannabis be treated any differently? i would agree but now in todays world cannabis is being treated a lot different then it was back then cannabis is  now a medicine in the eye's of our Government ( in some States ) by the people instead of just a drug to get High with we as cannabis users have been saying that for a long time 

 

If all the people that used cannabis for any reason wanted cannabis to be Legal it would be already theirs to much money to be made by our Government now for them to give up 

 

that boat has already sailed because the Government can't control it if they don't grow it 

[beourbud]

Thank you and happy new years too you and all

 

Why should cannabis be treated any differently? i would agree but now in todays world cannabis is being treated a lot different then it was back then cannabis is  now a medicine in the eye's of our Government ( in some States ) by the people instead of just a drug to get High with we as cannabis users have been saying that for a long time 

 

If all the people that used cannabis for any reason wanted cannabis to be Legal it would be already theirs to much money to be made by our Government now for them to give up 

 

that boat has already sailed because the Government can't control it if they don't grow it

 

 

 

Hilarious!

 

Thank You

[Timmahh]

It decriminalizes, not legalizes.  Your legal lies crap is getting old.  Learn the difference between legalization and decriminalization please.  This way you can drop the legal lies bs and maybe people will help with abrogate too.  If you would just educate yourself on the definitions this confusion you guys have could go away and maybe we could be on the same team.  As of now I'm against any haters propositions.  Seems to me that the most vocal people for abrogate are just haters trying to ruin everything thru divide and conquer.

It does both, and opens the Farmers up to start growing and getting their cut of that 14 Billion a year in imports they are losing out on.

It removes all penalties, all fines for use, prohibits Excise/Sin/Luxery Taxes and prohibits Regulation (aka Legislation) that would attempt to 'diminish use'.

It allows the Cannabis/Hemp Plant to become akin to the tomato plant for all people (the Real You), and Citizens (Persons) to make use of.

 

There are allot of people that have been ran over the hot coals in Michigan.  With an arrest increase of 400%, it is not hard to see why some folks are fed up, and not just fed up with the antics from the State.  

 

The only way the Entire State benefits across the board, from the farm fields to the city gardens to the jobs, to the economy, to the 78 Billion in Debt the state is, an increase of 4 billion in just 1/2 a year,  to the Husbands, Wives, Children, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers, and Mothers.....and everyone else is to just repeal the darn Crap and be done with it.

 

Like I said, Only you can tell yourself No.

 

Even Bill Scheutte stated Loud and Clear - "Let the Voters Decide." 

 

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2015/10/michigan_ag_bill_schuette_on_m.html

So Lets Us Let Then Decide Then!

 

 

The three proposals are competing proposals. Look up the definition of that. 

 

Because Abrogate Prohibition Michigan is proposing a Constitutional Amendment, when we turn in the 600,000 plus valid signatures by the July 11th deadline, after our 180 collection gig, the Amendment would bypass the entire Government and go directly to the ballot. As our buddy Billybong said above...

 

 

I have to ask anyone reading this thread, Need i say more?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Timmahh