Abrogate Prohibition Michigan Ballot Question Committee Amendment...

[Norby]

And as far as I know it can either be decriminalized, no restrictions, or legalized, with certain restrictions.  As far as i know it's either one or the other.

[Norby]

I'm ready for petitions, lots of interest and support here in the Cap City.

 

For those who know me, you know I'll talk with anyone about cannabis.

Last night was no exception and the topic was Abrogate.

I was blown away by the interest and support.

 

Let's get this done.

 

Norby, I find your logic a bit skewed brother.

That's ok, I find yours a bit skewed.  i thought you weren't all behind one or the other?  My logic is that I like things to go slow and figure them out.  Sorry, abrogate is too far of a step for me to see all the unintended consequences.  If I have to stand on one side or the other, as resto pointed out, I'm not comfortable with abrogate.  I think it can be taken advantage of too much by corporate interests, even ones from outside our country.  Not ready for that big of a leap as i think most others would be too, if they thought about the possibilities of what could go wrong.

[Wild Bill]

MiLegalize will protect the cottage industry whereas abrogate will open the flood gates.

 

I personally don't give a rat's patoot about any industry being protected. I don't have any plans to grow any to sell I only want to grow mine and be left alone by the government gun thugs. Floods are sometimes good, they wash away a lot of shite.

 

What could possibly be bad about not being taxed and regulated?

[Norby]

pollen, mites, powdery mildew, heavy metals, pesticides, fungicides.  Since we are only worrying about you though, not much except seeds, mites and powdery mildew.  Security on your garden just got a new meaning though.

 

For the rest of the people out there who want a job or to be able to grow their own outside, it means a lot.

 

If you just want to ggrow your own what's wrong with 12 in flower and unlimited under 1 ft?  If your just growing your own you don't have to worry about taxes and you shouldn't have to worry with being able to grow 12 in flower and unlimited under a foot?

Edited January 1, 2016 by Norby

[Norby]

Just think of everything you know about corporate america, trying to take over the MMMA and SB660, etc. and think what will happen to the first state they have free reign in?  Land values will go up since it'll be a staging ground for being ahead of the rest of america.  Everything will be done with machines.  Everything will be sprayed.  Which may not hinder the spread of mites mildew and mold. It'll become a vacation destination with the casinos and rent will go up like reno and other places that have legalized gambling and legal pot.  Since there is no regulation on shipping it in from other countries, China can remediate their toxic soils and send it here and S. america will be cheaper than anyone here can produce for smoke.  Say goodbye to the times when you could get cheap/good indoor and outdoor grown pot. Indoor will be thru the roof with all the air scrubbers you'll need growing anywhere in rural Mi, indoor or out.

[Wild Bill]

You will not be required to buy corporate or Chinese schwag, that's your option. Just like lettuce, you can grow your own, buy locally grown organic or buy agribusiness Chilean grown. Your choice.

 

Do you currently find these problems with all of the other crops that do not have restricted legal status?

Edited January 1, 2016 by Wild Bill

[Norby]

Yes I do.  No labeling of meat and food from other countries and no idea on what they use on their crops.  Different economies competing against each other in a race to the bottom.  Nothing being produced locally and all that energy to ship it all over the world.  Yep I have problems with the way the whole set up is run, it leads to our loss of power as people and our being treated like serfs.

 

And that's fine, just don't try and sell it, as some others have, as something it's not.

 

And you'd be able to do as you want under both laws.  One would protect Mi and the other throws it to the wolves.  You choose, I'll be able to do as I wish under either. Just don't call Milegalize, legal lies and pit one against the other and we'll be fine.

 

I'll answer your questions but feel no need to answer mine, thanks.  So i'll say it, you have no beef with taxes since you'd not pay any growing your own and you'd be able to grow all you want under both laws.  Not really a conversation this way but if you'd rather me answer my questions to you we can do it this way too.

 

Now I'd love to see abrogate make it but I don't think it has a chance at getting sigs and if your all going to bad mouth Milegalize to try and make abrogate look better(republican strategy) then your going to get people like me to pick it apart in turn.

[Wild Bill]

I'm not against either proposal, although I feel Abrogate is better than Milegalize.

 

I signed the Milegalize petition and will sign the Abrogate petition too.

 

Actually I'll sign any petition, every idea deserves chance.

[Restorium2]

Yes I do.  No labeling of meat and food from other countries and no idea on what they use on their crops.  Different economies competing against each other in a race to the bottom.  Nothing being produced locally and all that energy to ship it all over the world.  Yep I have problems with the way the whole set up is run, it leads to our loss of power as people and our being treated like serfs.

 

And that's fine, just don't try and sell it, as some others have, as something it's not.

 

And you'd be able to do as you want under both laws.  One would protect Mi and the other throws it to the wolves.  You choose, I'll be able to do as I wish under either. Just don't call Milegalize, legal lies and pit one against the other and we'll be fine.

 

I'll answer your questions but feel no need to answer mine, thanks.  So i'll say it, you have no beef with taxes since you'd not pay any growing your own and you'd be able to grow all you want under both laws.  Not really a conversation this way but if you'd rather me answer my questions to you we can do it this way too.

 

Now I'd love to see abrogate make it but I don't think it has a chance at getting sigs and if your all going to bad mouth Milegalize to try and make abrogate look better(republican strategy) then your going to get people like me to pick it apart in turn.

Research 'competing ballot initiatives'. Only one wins. The law pits them against each other. Abrogate is obviously the best wording for everyone. You can't pick it apart. Go ahead and try. To hold that as some sort of a threat is laughable.

[t-pain]

they arent even competing. a consitutional amendment and a legislative amendment are two different parts of the law!

 

norby: even if there are some bad actors here, dont sink to thier level.

if they have to resort to name calling to feel better, thats on them.

[Restorium2]

they arent even competing. a consitutional amendment and a legislative amendment are two different parts of the law!

 

norby: even if there are some bad actors here, dont sink to thier level.

if they have to resort to name calling to feel better, thats on them.

Wrongo T. They are competing. If Abrogate passes it negates the other two. 

 

We are keeping this real and you are crying like a spoiled baby. I understand that if Abrogate passes all your had work was for nothing. But that's no reason to get all crappy about this. Calling us 'bad actors' is a very low blow. And that's on you. 

[phaquetoo]

And we shouldn't be paying for the roads either. How and heck do you tie marijuana to road funding in a fair way? That's another type of extortion. When my marijuana has an engine and wheels I will let it be used to pave the roads. 

our fruit, meat and dairy dont have wheels, but the trucks that haul them do, and they use gasoling/diesle and pay taxes there,

 

The gov isnt going to open it up w/o getting their share, I should not have to tell you that.

 

It has taken this long to make a plant acceptable and it realy isnt completely,  I beleive it is taking so long because big brother is trying to figure out a way to capitalize on the almighty $$$$$$........If they make it legal they want their cut just like alcohol and tobbaco and everything else sold on this land!

 

Peace

[+Malamute]

Wrongo T. They are competing. If Abrogate passes it negates the other two. 

 

 

 

 Not exactly...

[t-pain]

I support all marijuana initiatives, resto.

 

fighting between them is not helping anyone however.

[Restorium2]

 Not exactly...

Abrogate says No Regulations .....

[Norby]

Merely pointing out what it feels like.  I don't understand why anyone would want to divide and conquer but it seems as if that's what the abrogate crew wants to do.  If abrogate is so good why can't it stand on it's own?  Why do they have to act like republicans and try to make Milegalize look bad instead of just trying to make abrogate look good? 

I'll stop if they do but it seems that they needed a little taste of their own medicine to realize what they are doing.  They don't even know the difference between legalization and decriminalization!  They are the ones lying about Milegalize.  i don't have a problem with either one, as long as other people don't have a problem with either one.  This is what divide and conquer looks like, just in case you weren't aware.

  Besides they started it.

[Norby]

Wrongo T. They are competing. If Abrogate passes it negates the other two. 

 

We are keeping this real and you are crying like a spoiled baby. I understand that if Abrogate passes all your had work was for nothing. But that's no reason to get all crappy about this. Calling us 'bad actors' is a very low blow. And that's on you. 

If the truth fits.....  Why can't you praise abrogate without shitting on Milegalize?  The truth as you see it is only your opinion, sorry.

[Norby]

Abrogate says No Regulations .....

Which means it is decriminalization, NOT legalization.  Learn the difference between the 2 so you aren't misrepresenting Milegalize. 

[Norby]

Research 'competing ballot initiatives'. Only one wins. The law pits them against each other. Abrogate is obviously the best wording for everyone. You can't pick it apart. Go ahead and try. To hold that as some sort of a threat is laughable.

Did you not read anything I wrote?  Autoflowers star throwing pollen at 3 weeks from seed.  A farm could plant thousands every week for seed for food meaning NO lag time for pollen.  It will literally be floating ALL summer.  Wake up.  Just because you can't see unintended consequences with YOUR proposal, doesn't mean everyone else is blinded like you are.  Think about it.  you think some farms won't try and go organic and spread mites and powdery mildew spores as far as the eye can see?  You think Michigan won't be the "responsibleohio" plots of the whole country?  Open your eyes or you may not be ready for what you vote in.  I couldn't care less which one makes it but if it's going to be one against the other then lets talk this out and see what the state will look like after each one passes?  Really talking about the truth of what Mi will be, not just blowing off everything I say as fallacy.

[phaquetoo]

Which means it is decriminalization, NOT legalization.  Learn the difference between the 2 so you aren't misrepresenting Milegalize. 

I am out of likes, I just wanted to like your opinion!

 

Happy New Years to All of You!

 

Peace

[medmanmike]

Not exactly...

Not exactly...

I think it would be helpful for those of you who say competing proposals will or will not override each other to provide data (State Law, or whatever) to support your position(s) We can argue all day as to whether the sky is "actually" blue or not, but what good does it do?

 

Or, if there is a constitutional lawyer/member of this forum maybe they could jump in and gives us a legal opinion.

[Restorium2]

I think it would be helpful for those of you who say competing proposals will or will not override each other to provide data (State Law, or whatever) to support your position(s) We can argue all day as to whether the sky is "actually" blue or not, but what good does it do?

 

Or, if there is a constitutional lawyer/member of this forum maybe they could jump in and gives us a legal opinion.

Abrogate says: NO REGULATIONS

 

When the DNR wanted to override all the BS laws the legislature wrote to steal their money and put it in the general fund they wrote and passed an initiative to change the Michigan Constitution (like abrogate does) that kept their money in the program it was collected. It ruled. 

 

The first marijuana initiative actually has a 'poison pill' clause written into it that negates everything else that passes like it. 

 

It's going to be just one in the end. The three are competing. 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Did you not read anything I wrote?  Autoflowers star throwing pollen at 3 weeks from seed.  A farm could plant thousands every week for seed for food meaning NO lag time for pollen.  It will literally be floating ALL summer.  Wake up.  Just because you can't see unintended consequences with YOUR proposal, doesn't mean everyone else is blinded like you are.  Think about it.  you think some farms won't try and go organic and spread mites and powdery mildew spores as far as the eye can see?  You think Michigan won't be the "responsibleohio" plots of the whole country?  Open your eyes or you may not be ready for what you vote in.  I couldn't care less which one makes it but if it's going to be one against the other then lets talk this out and see what the state will look like after each one passes?  Really talking about the truth of what Mi will be, not just blowing off everything I say as fallacy.

I read it holding my nose because you write a lot of garbage that means nothing. 

[Restorium2]

Like this is total BS:  you think some farms won't try and go organic and spread mites and powdery mildew spores as far as the eye can see?  

 

There are so many mites and mold spores outdoors already. It's natural. You are grasping at straws and making zero sense doing it.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Which means it is decriminalization, NOT legalization.  Learn the difference between the 2 so you aren't misrepresenting Milegalize. 

Decriminalization leaves regulations in place. 

 

Abrogate says; No Regulations.