Will Caregivers Still Be Needed

[t-pain]

having instant online caregiver changes would solve a lot of problems too

[trichcycler]

  Patients dont buy grams, that is like buying one antibiotic pill.. I know many are poor as am I ,,  but a CG can adjust his/her price to meet most of there needs... But adverts on CL  ... too funny.. Thats like a frog crosing the highway....  Just asking for a hit..

 

why you think patients dont buy grams man?

really? you ever been at a dispensary?  patients buying grams at a time and walking away when visited.  Patients DO buy grams, not mine, not yours maybe, but dispensaries offer gram prices, discounts on more, like 1/8ths and up. I didnt see one without a per gram menu, online or in person.

Edited September 27, 2016 by trichcycler

[Restorium2]

why you think patients dont buy grams man?

really? you ever been at a dispensary?  patients buying grams at a time and walking away when visited.  Patients DO buy grams, not mine, not yours maybe, but dispensaries offer gram prices, discounts on more, like 1/8ths and up. I didnt see one without a per gram menu, online or in person.

Or mine .... or most anyone's patient. Simple answer is that the gram buyers are recreational users. After all, it's an illegal dispensary with no rules. They are just the corner drug dealer that used to sell joints now they sell grams (and also joints) after they tumble the marijuana and get what they want out of it first.

[trichcycler]

Any shop that is taking in pre tumble weed needs shut down.

 

This is utter bs, knocking the medicine off the flowers and selling patients plant matter w/ very little medicine left.

 

Deplorable practices will catch up to these folks and the ones who don't tumble weed will be those who stay open.

 

IMHO

prolly selling the trichomes back to the same dispensary. since they're taking an incredible risk anyways, doesnt care about the end user or their  health, focused on the money, I'd expect lots of dispensary sellers to practice this, if they can get away with it, and make more cash doing it.  

 

I dont think any of these dispensaries will "stay open". A new breed of owners will emerge, practice all kinds of unsavory habits, and make bud tumblers look like bag pinchers

 

I think it best to grow your own for the best experience available

[trichcycler]

Or mine .... or most anyone's patient. Simple answer is that the gram buyers are recreational users. After all, it's an illegal dispensary with no rules. They are just the corner drug dealer that used to sell joints now they sell grams (and also joints) after they tumble the marijuana and get what they want out of it first.

 Perhaps the definition of the word patient was in question, I considered this. I'm no doctor and see these patients have patient cards. I've seen sick people in wheelchairs, hunched over too, and they bought grams right their at the counter. It happens, cmon, of course it does. I dont wish to separate the two classes until the lara does maybe. Most users I know used cannabis both recreationally and medically for years and years, I make no bones like you of the difference maybe?

I didnt see the issue of "anybody's patient" btw. 

 

Maybe soon some will think that anyone without a cg already is a recreational user and should be branded as such?  we all use cannabis, we all sell it our patients, and they experience recreational side effects as well as medical relief. Every experienced cannabis user knows this. Its the politico that will eventually draw the line, I'm disappointed to see it drawn here frankly.

 

peace

[phaquetoo]

prolly selling the trichomes back to the same dispensary. since they're taking an incredible risk anyways, doesnt care about the end user or their  health, focused on the money, I'd expect lots of dispensary sellers to practice this, if they can get away with it, and make more cash doing it.  

 

I dont think any of these dispensaries will "stay open". A new breed of owners will emerge, practice all kinds of unsavory habits, and make bud tumblers look like bag pinchers

 

I think it best to grow your own for the best experience available

Yup!

[trichcycler]

Yup!

 

ever feel icky for the "at least I'm getting mine for free" part? 

 

[Restorium2]

 Perhaps the definition of the word patient was in question, I considered this. I'm no doctor and see these patients have patient cards. I've seen sick people in wheelchairs, hunched over too, and they bought grams right their at the counter. It happens, cmon, of course it does. I dont wish to separate the two classes until the lara does maybe. Most users I know used cannabis both recreationally and medically for years and years, I make no bones like you of the difference maybe?

I didnt see the issue of "anybody's patient" btw. 

 

Maybe soon some will think that anyone without a cg already is a recreational user and should be branded as such?  we all use cannabis, we all sell it our patients, and they experience recreational side effects as well as medical relief. Every experienced cannabis user knows this. Its the politico that will eventually draw the line, I'm disappointed to see it drawn here frankly.

 

peace

Sounds like you spend a lot of time 'observing' a dispensary(s). Looking at people's cards there? Sounding a little far fetched unless you work there or are just hanging out. I think you are making stuff up again from your imagination.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Restorium2

[trichcycler]

nope, some time ago I did visit a local one, and recently a patient took me to a couple different ones, he said were some of the better. I have real life experience, and I dont wish to divide medical from recreational users here. If you saw a sick person buying a gram, you would then know for yourself. Get out, get away form the pretend life you live here, and you'll see. I meet undesirable patients, real sick people, maybe cant drive, smell bad, can communicate well, have mental illness and anxieties. These patients(recreational/medical??) need to go to dispensaries when they have no cg to assist them they live their lives being scammed by others taking advantage of them every where they turn, including these scummy dispensaries being discussed.

 

If you want to debate the difference between medical and recreational PATIENTS, start a thread, I'll troll ya back man, dont sweat it.

Sick ill patient absolutely buy grams at a time, I've seen it myself a few times, and interviewed sick patients that told me thats all they need.

I kept one till he died last year, since 2009, he was exactly that person. I didnt even charge him and was in his area anyways monthly, I dropped off his 1/4 ounce

and he loved me for it every time I was in the neighborhood. He loved the effects of cannabis while it helped him live with his disabilities. His recreational side effects were part of the package.  Anyone that grows quality herb knows darn well very pleasant effects can be had in properly grown cannabis, even to the point of some feeling guilty for the recreational effects they get?  NOT

[Restorium2]

Naw, patients have chronic issues. A gram isn't going to do much for them. I'm calling BS. They are just joint dealers at a store front. Or gramming out tumble weed. It's really a sad story either way. 

[trichcycler]

I was thinking...LOL will caregiver's still be able to grow? I tried to read But Dam it's DRY

 

sorry, carry on

[Restorium2]

trichcycler,

Right on this page you said you never had a patient that bought grams then you said you did. You have zero credibility.

[trichcycler]

Naw, patients have chronic issues. A gram isn't going to do much for them. I'm calling BS. They are just joint dealers at a store front. Or gramming out tumble weed. It's really a sad story either way. 

 

 

your ignorance shows here. some people are poor resto, and can only medicate occasionally, even real patients. you should practice more compassion in this area, and your life perhaps.

we said nothing of the dispensary motivation, only that il patients can and do purchase grams at a time, I've seen it. A gram of herb can last me days sometimes btw.

[trichcycler]

trichcycler,

Right on this page you said you never had a patient that bought grams then you said you did. You have zero credibility.

 your reading comprehension shows as your ignorance does. he did not pay for his grams. you are welcome. you can lie, or misread, but I'll be sure to clear this up for you. stay tuned, but stop trolling me, get a life maybe, help a sick person who cannot afford more than a gram today maybe?

[phaquetoo]

ever feel icky for the "at least I'm getting mine for free" part? 

 

I used to! If you only knew, Beleive me I paid my dues with this guy!

 

I am disapointed in how he has become a target!

 

I turned him on to weed maps and the place he is going and doing biz,  I have never been to the place!

 

He wont talk to me on the phone, wont tell me anything about meds, But goes off and sells to strangers!

 

He has tried to get me to do it with him, I wont do it and I tell him why,,,,,,,Its ilegal........He just started going online.

 

He dont beleive me when I tell him about the bills that just passed,  He is one of them know it all phaq's

 

No I feel good about getting my meds for free lol!

 

Peace

 

   

 

p.s the only time I had mites I got them from his clones! (when I was the ole ladys c.g) My bad though!

[beourbud]

Not to stick up for despenses, but my c.g tumbles his before he sells to them, I know that for sure, that is why I get plants not zips!

 

im not so sure the despenses are all doing that, but I know of one c.g who is!

 

Peace

So you condone this behavior and associate yourself with that ilk?

[+Malamute]

Um, the difference between Caregivers and dispensaries:

 

Dispensaries charge $20 gram. A caregiver would just give you an eighth if 20 bucks is all you had..

 

Besides, gram price should be same as ounce price by the gram. ripoff basterds. Taking advantage of the poorest patients.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Willy: I think your logic is flawed.  Just because you have a 5.88 ratio, doesn't mean that 3000 of the 3900 patients you listed aren't happy and just feel stuck because they don't know of any other options.  The more random people I speak to about this, the clearer it becomes.

 

It also doesn't mean that 3000 of them are unhappy.  As far as i know your a decent cg, as most of the others I personally know are... I know your position on a dispensary, but slaggin on CG's doesn't justify a better option for disp. for patients. I dont mind their existence but i dont support them across the board either. another thread is mentioning that disp, tumble there meds to remove the trics for hash. I can't swear to that but the bud i have been offered from folks to try, were substandard to me. And im not that picky. can't imagine a pot snobs view. anywho there is just as many decent CG's as there as a-hole ones. Like all business,,Caveat emptor  (buyer beware).. not all disp are above board either. Why is it that everyone that wants to have a disp, seem to have to make CG's the enemy?  what is the justification for that. Singular competition? 

Well, I am not sure where you got 3900 patients either, last I heard it was 182,000.  And, I say a major problem is bad CG's because the good ones have their hands tied at 5 PT's.  The Buyer beware, that's a problem.  When you talk to people who haven't smoked their whole lives, they don't know where to go.  They don't have hook ups from friends.  There is still a lot of secrecy especially when you talk to people who are successful, they still feel it is completely taboo.  Literally I could have you speak with 2 people, both in their 40s, both smoked their whole lives, both had no idea where or how to find a good quality, consistent CG when I met them.  They can both get the occasional hookup, but nothing medical and nothing consistent year round.

 

And, just like one Dispensary owner here in GR, the competition is welcome.  There is enough market it won't matter.  On top of that, my plan includes a phone for patients/CG's to be informed of their rights, new bills that affect THEM in the MMMA, and the phone numbers to their legislators where they can call on my dime and inform Lansing what their opinion of it is.  Not my opinion. 

 

I also don't support taxing medicine at all.  I've said it many times, I don't care if they tax recreational at 20+%, but I would rather not have a dispensary if it means taxing patients who NEED this.  I am not part of any dispensary groups, because I wouldn't agree with most of them.  It isn't about the money, it's about helping people, helping the planet, and being able to look in the mirror and be happy.  I don't really care if I look in my bank and see numbers, they are just numbers and mean nothing when the Grim reaper comes knocking.

 

Of those people you meet all,the time, who live in apartments and can't grow, how many of them can afford dispensary prices for their meds?

 

You have two choices in your MMJ advocacy. You can either advocate for dispensaries where patients pay $10+ per gram or you can work to support the original compassion club model, where patients are either taught how to grow their own or how to connect with a CG who will supply meds around $5 per gram.

Depends on what prices you refer to.  $230-250/oz isn't that far from what we all call standard, plus you alleviate a lot of issues.  So, yes, if they can afford any MJ, they can afford some Dispensary prices.  Also, some PT's like to sample a few things once a month.  I can't grow the 20,000 strains out there today, so the best bet if for them to buy a few grams here and there, then let me know what worked best so I can look into providing that to them in the future.

 

I disagree on advocacy.  My wife owns an herbalist supply store.  Does that mean I don't think pharmacies can exist?  Not at all, they can coincide.  I would vote for expanding the CG/PT model and am vocal about it.  I think we need more than 10 PT's to make a living, but that's me and it should be a viable career.  I normally also have at least 1 PT or CG who I am teaching to grow, or to grow better.  Not so they can go commercial, so they can provide for patients in need or themselves.  And I don't consider that competition, I consider that another brother/sister that I will maybe in the future learn something from.

 

As Willy pointed out, I do want to have a dispensary.  Not a retail store where you buy a pack of pre-rolls.  But a clinic where you sit down, interview, discuss, and locate the best strain.  Then I could help them get with a CG if they like, teach them to grow, or they can keep coming to me.  Lots will say I will fail, not enough money in it, but it's my risk.

 

having instant online caregiver changes would solve a lot of problems too

The COA made it clear you don't have to turn in paper work in the Bylsma/Overholt decision.  A signed agreement stating the PT will use you is all you need.  The PT may need to inform their prior CG beforehand.

 

A lot of it looks like crap, but it isn't all from tumbling, some is "orgainic inexperienced" CG's.  Part of it is the dispensaries only wanting money, and not even getting accurate tests...

[phaquetoo]

So you condone this behavior and associate yourself with that ilk?

No I dont condone it.

 

I met this guy from a black market person I was getting meds from untill I could get the equip to grow my own.

 

He offered me our deal,  With me having nothing to do with anything other than getting a plant every other crop! (6 to 8 wks)

 

I dont get involved in his personal business,  He realy isnt some one I would want to be best buds with!

 

He is my c.g thats it, what he does beyond that is his business!

 

 

When My lady became a pt we bought all of my grow equipment at tax time, I was her c.g and growing for her,  I kept my c.g initialy untill I got up and cropping,  I decided to keep him as my c.g for back up, and for the meds in our agreement!

 

I would have to think when they close the current despensarry's down to open the supply centers he will have to make a choice eh?

 

I may have to get my grow rights back and be on my own, (im sad)

 

 

Peace

[Willy]

Well, I am not sure where you got 3900 patients either, last I heard it was 182,000. 

Those numbers are strictly for Muskegon County, not the state.. and yes good CG's do have a waiting list.. I have never had a problem with finding needy patients looking for a fair shake. 

[CedarSpringsCG]

Um, the difference between Caregivers and dispensaries:

 

Dispensaries charge $20 gram. A caregiver would just give you an eighth if 20 bucks is all you had..

 

Besides, gram price should be same as ounce price by the gram. ripoff basterds. Taking advantage of the poorest patients.

Wait, didn't you say gram purchasers are recreational mostly anyway?  If that's the case, they are giving discounts to the poorest real patients...  And not all dispensaries are $20 a gram...

[CedarSpringsCG]

It doesn't surprise me that two patients had difficulty finding good supply until they met a good caregiver. I just don't see how you think dispensaries are the solution to this issue. Finding that good caregiver is the obvious solution.

 

After everything your patients went through to find you, after all this supposed trouble, after finding literally the actual answer to the problem, you are going to abandon them to purchase their marijuana from your retail outlet which is purchased from a commercial grower? I may be misunderstanding your plan here.

Well, honestly most of my plan was before it passed, and I assumed that you could still be a CG.  So, there is that problem.  The only thing I have come up with is they can be patrons of my store, with special pricing not to exceed what we had agreed to.  I take care of 5 patients consistently with a 12 plant flower, and it isn't even always full.  The other idea is to move them to a new CG that is as good as myself, or have my wife take over the patients, I have a store, she is a CG..  Anyway, yes, that hasn't been ironed out, and probably won't be until they release the rules.

 

I was really disappointed to see the exclusivity of being a shop operator and a CG.  I don't see why they have to be separate, unless like everyone fears, including me, that this is the end of the CG/PT system.  This is where I am different than some Dispensary owners I have spoken to.  Most want the whole market, to be millionaires.

[trichcycler]

Well, honestly most of my plan was before it passed, and I assumed that you could still be a CG.  So, there is that problem.  The only thing I have come up with is they can be patrons of my store, with special pricing not to exceed what we had agreed to.  I take care of 5 patients consistently with a 12 plant flower, and it isn't even always full.  The other idea is to move them to a new CG that is as good as myself, or have my wife take over the patients, I have a store, she is a CG..  Anyway, yes, that hasn't been ironed out, and probably won't be until they release the rules.

 

I was really disappointed to see the exclusivity of being a shop operator and a CG.  I don't see why they have to be separate, unless like everyone fears, including me, that this is the end of the CG/PT system.  This is where I am different than some Dispensary owners I have spoken to.  Most want the whole market, to be millionaires.

will be interesting to see which shops are actually allowed to operate, which are pummeled with legal/political issues and which seem to breeze right through the industry, like today's dispensary environment, well, last weeks' anyhow.  I suspect those who anty up today for permits and such will be immediately hassled, while the justus system appoints  worthy operators into position.

 

best of wishes

 

I'd rather be a disp supplier than a public disp, . but aint gonna happen for me, Im scared of the feds, the irs, the dea, and the atf. I dont like many people that wear a uniform to don their weapons, and suits always get me down.

I never saw any proposed payment amounts to growers yet, this will be all telling when it happens. even at 500 dollars an ounce I wont play or be a part of that. I might not even service patients one day by choice, I might not even renew my registration one day........

[Highlander]

Well, I am not sure where you got 3900 patients either, last I heard it was 182,000. And, I say a major problem is bad CG's because the good ones have their hands tied at 5 PT's. The Buyer beware, that's a problem. When you talk to people who haven't smoked their whole lives, they don't know where to go. They don't have hook ups from friends. There is still a lot of secrecy especially when you talk to people who are successful, they still feel it is completely taboo. Literally I could have you speak with 2 people, both in their 40s, both smoked their whole lives, both had no idea where or how to find a good quality, consistent CG when I met them. They can both get the occasional hookup, but nothing medical and nothing consistent year round.

 

And, just like one Dispensary owner here in GR, the competition is welcome. There is enough market it won't matter. On top of that, my plan includes a phone for patients/CG's to be informed of their rights, new bills that affect THEM in the MMMA, and the phone numbers to their legislators where they can call on my dime and inform Lansing what their opinion of it is. Not my opinion.

 

I also don't support taxing medicine at all. I've said it many times, I don't care if they tax recreational at 20+%, but I would rather not have a dispensary if it means taxing patients who NEED this. I am not part of any dispensary groups, because I wouldn't agree with most of them. It isn't about the money, it's about helping people, helping the planet, and being able to look in the mirror and be happy. I don't really care if I look in my bank and see numbers, they are just numbers and mean nothing when the Grim reaper comes knocking.

 

Depends on what prices you refer to. $230-250/oz isn't that far from what we all call standard, plus you alleviate a lot of issues. So, yes, if they can afford any MJ, they can afford some Dispensary prices. Also, some PT's like to sample a few things once a month. I can't grow the 20,000 strains out there today, so the best bet if for them to buy a few grams here and there, then let me know what worked best so I can look into providing that to them in the future.

 

I disagree on advocacy. My wife owns an herbalist supply store. Does that mean I don't think pharmacies can exist? Not at all, they can coincide. I would vote for expanding the CG/PT model and am vocal about it. I think we need more than 10 PT's to make a living, but that's me and it should be a viable career. I normally also have at least 1 PT or CG who I am teaching to grow, or to grow better. Not so they can go commercial, so they can provide for patients in need or themselves. And I don't consider that competition, I consider that another brother/sister that I will maybe in the future learn something from.

 

As Willy pointed out, I do want to have a dispensary. Not a retail store where you buy a pack of pre-rolls. But a clinic where you sit down, interview, discuss, and locate the best strain. Then I could help them get with a CG if they like, teach them to grow, or they can keep coming to me. Lots will say I will fail, not enough money in it, but it's my risk.

 

The COA made it clear you don't have to turn in paper work in the Bylsma/Overholt decision. A signed agreement stating the PT will use you is all you need. The PT may need to inform their prior CG beforehand.

 

A lot of it looks like crap, but it isn't all from tumbling, some is "orgainic inexperienced" CG's. Part of it is the dispensaries only wanting money, and not even getting accurate tests...

$230 to $250 per ounce isn't standard. Between myself and other CGs I know, $5 to $7 per gram is common. That's $140 to $196 per ounce.

[CedarSpringsCG]

will be interesting to see which shops are actually allowed to operate, which are pummeled with legal/political issues and which seem to breeze right through the industry, like today's dispensary environment, well, last weeks' anyhow.  I suspect those who anty up today for permits and such will be immediately hassled, while the justus system appoints  worthy operators into position.

 

best of wishes

 

I'd rather be a disp supplier than a public disp, . but aint gonna happen for me, Im scared of the feds, the irs, the dea, and the atf. I dont like many people that wear a uniform to don their weapons, and suits always get me down.

I never saw any proposed payment amounts to growers yet, this will be all telling when it happens. even at 500 dollars an ounce I wont play or be a part of that. I might not even service patients one day by choice, I might not even renew my registration one day........

Yeah, I fear that too, that people like me who want to do it the right way, won't have the money the Gov't wants out of it.  I've thought of just being a grower, but having a 500 plant grow minimum is too much for a start up.  I mean a 500 plant grow is like 100+ lbs a month.  Unless you have lots of money, means I probably won't be an owner either, but I am going to stick my neck out and see if I can make it happen.