Flint Citizens Want Snyder’S Head; Gov. Begs Obama For Help

[t-pain]

related to his investigation?

 

usually during an investigation its "no comment"

so either he hasnt started yet or hes finished investigating?

[Restorium2]

related to his investigation? usually during an investigation its "no comment" so either he hasnt started yet or hes finished investigating?

Schuette was the consultant all through this about breaking state law. At every turn they asked him how the state laws applied and that is all that guided them. If they were not breaking state law then everything was ok with poisoning and killing. So the investigation was just a compiling of his advice to them through the crisis. The work was already done. They knew they had their arses covered by state law. It's shows in some of the correspondence. 

Schuette himself will be one of the 'persons of interest' in the federal probe. 

[cristinew]

“It was a collective decision of the emergency management team based on conversations with the MDEQ that indicated they would not be supportive of the use of the Flint River on a long-term basis as a primary source of water,” Ambrose answered.

 

Howard Croft, the former director of public works for Flint who resigned in November 2015, asserted more than four months ago in a videotaped interview with the ACLU of Michigan that the decision to use the dangerously corrosive river came directly from the Snyder administration..

[Restorium2]

Restorium2, on 14 Jan 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

The Smoking Gun:

 

Starting with inquiries made in February, the federal agency battled Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water. The EPA did not publicize its concern that Flint residents’ health was jeopardized by the state’s insistence that such controls were not required by law.

not required by law.  

 

--Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette

[Norby]

Interesting read in the comments section from another article.

 

If some consider it a "conspiracy theory", you'll find many of us agree with you on this issue.

This (and the water shutoffs in Detroit in 2014 that resulted in Detroiters going to the United Nations for help) is indeed part of the plan for the privatization of the DWSD. Scientists predict global water shortages to begin in app. 15 yrs. Oil rich families, like the Bushes and Wall St, have been buying hundreds of thousands of acres on top of aquifers w/water rights and corporations like Nestle Co. have been raping our resources, draining freshwater by the millions of gallons in both the Great Lakes and Cali (even during their historic drought), for profit.

Snyder's overlords want control of the largest freshwater source in the world by the time those shortages become reality. DWSD was put in the red (in the same manner as the US Postal Service and for the same reason - privatization) intentionally, to justify a takeover that will lead to privatization.

Consider the power inherent in controlling the largest, most efficient treatment facility, on the largest freshwater source in the WORLD - in a time of global shortage. This is a long-term plan with global implications. Consider "trickle down" taking 30 yrs to come to fruition. Consider the conception of FOX NEWS propaganda machine, by Roger Ailes (in his own handwriting, during the Nixon administration) achieving it's stated purpose as stated in documents discovered in the Nixon Library a couple years ago. Long-term is nothing new and they're good at it.

WATER IS THE NEW OIL, PEOPLE; and the people of Flint (and poor folk of Detroit) were nothing but collateral damage on their greedy path to more money, power and control over those whose humanity they dismiss on a daily basis.

[Restorium2]

FYI:

 

Yes, you can sue the state, but only for reasons it allows and not in the same way that you can sue an individual or private business. The general rule is that the state has immunity from being sued unless its laws specifically permit lawsuits for specif types of claims. These are generally called Tort Claims Acts, although other states may have different names. A common provision in such laws is that the state may be sued for "proprietary" actions but not "governmental" actions. Each state law will have differences of some sort or another so you have to check the applicable state law. An example would be if a state built a road that was not able to handle all its traffic and an accident happened, the state most likely would be immune from suit because the decision on the design of the road is considered a governmental decision. However, if in the act of maintaining the road, a state maintenance crew does something negligent to cause an accident, then there would be no immunity, because maintaining the road is considered proprietary. In addition to specifically delineating the types of state actions that can be sued upon, Tort Claims Acts typically require some procedural steps that must be taken. Some laws forbid the filing of a lawsuit unless a written notice of the intention to file suit has first been given to the state. There are other procedural and substantive matters that make suing a state different than suing an individual too numerous to go into here. For more detail, the actual statutes have to be read.

[solabeirtan]

Great! you are a legal source now Resto?

 

How exactly does that relate to what is unraveling in the Flint tragedy?

 

How about in the questionable (imho) action of declaring the D insolvent and its subsequent bankruptcy and asset liquidation/transfer. How about dismanteling their water and sewer department assets?

[Restorium2]

Great! you are a legal source now Resto?

 

How exactly does that relate to what is unraveling in the Flint tragedy?

 

How about in the questionable (imho) action of declaring the D insolvent and its subsequent bankruptcy and asset liquidation/transfer. How about dismanteling their water and sewer department assets?

It relates to Schuette giving advice to Snyder and the Flint Emergency Manager as to how they were covered by state law. 

 

What Schuette (Snyder's attorney) is doing now is making his case in the public as to how his client is covered. 

 

I provided a little background on how state law covers state government decisions. What you can and can't sue about. 

[solabeirtan]

I understand there are several lawsuits currently, regarding their actions in the Flint crisis...

 

So Shuette is trying to build a possible defense? Or more like cya?

 

I'll admit I'm not a legal expert  but this whole EM thing smacks of some type of War Powers, dictatorial overreach.  Including the approval of the bankruptcy by a retiring Fed judge, Steven Rhodes, who just happens to be a self avowed expert on Ponzi schemes. He even wrote a book on the subject:

 

'The Ponzi Book'

 

I understand he is now handling Puerto Ricos'  bankruptcy! ...says it's exactly like the D!

Edited January 25, 2016 by solabeirtan

[Restorium2]

There are two lines in the sand.

 

Differing points of view: 

 

One of common sense and expected common decency.

 

The other; what laws are being broken.  

 

What is becoming very clear is Schuette was giving Snyder and his Emergency Manager advice that was strictly based on the laws on the books. They will be hanging their hats on that because it was their plan all along. We will have to see how that plan works for them in the long run.  I don't think they planned on the stakes getting so high. 

[mibrains]

 March 2 2016

   State Treasurer Nick Khouri issued the following today, regarding recent inaccurate statements about an April, 2015 emergency loan agreement with the City of Flint.

 

   “The emergency loan agreement with the city of Flint, signed April 29, 2015, just days after I became State Treasurer, provided the City with $7 million to eliminate the City’s deficit and allow the emergency manager to leave.

   “At no time did the loan agreement with Flint prohibit the city from returning to the Detroit Water System. It required the City only to notify, and receive State approval, before making such a decision.

   “As with any emergency loan agreement, there are a number of financial conditions included to ensure that a local unit of government remains on solid financial footing and does not slip back into financial emergency.

   “At no time did the State receive a request from the City, to move back to DWSD, between April 29, 2015 and October 2015, when the City reconnected to DWSD, with State Financial assistance.”

[Restorium2]

Provisions in the document state that:

• "The City shall not decrease rates with City charges for water or sewer services" without approval from the State Treasurer
  
• "The City shall not terminate its participation in the Karegnondi Water Authority (the "KWA") before the KWA water supply system... is operational with all required regulatory approvals effective."
  
• "The City shall not enter into an agreement with the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, or any successor entity, including the Great Lakes Water Authority, without the prior written approval of the State Treasurer."
  

[solabeirtan]

Flint EM Darnell Earley to testify on Mar 15 along with former Flint Mayor and CoB for Karegondi Water Dwayne Wallings and others,  while Rotten and EPA head Gina McCarthy will testify Mar 17 at the House Oversight Committee Hearings in D.C.

 

No doubt everyone is aware that there are approved recall efforts afoot. 

 

Late Night last night (missed it) had Jon Conner (former Flint native) doing a version of  his song about the ongoing Flint Tragedy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7X9ygv_rO0

[Jjamh]

So why is the flint river water so messed up & what can we do to fix it.? Seems weird to me for us to just call it a polluted river & leave it?

[Highlander]

So why is the flint river water so messed up & what can we do to fix it.? Seems weird to me for us to just call it a polluted river & leave it?

The problem isn't the river water. It's how that water was treated. Detroit water included chemicals that coated the interior of pipes and prevented corrosion of the pipes. The water treated by the water treatment plant in flint was not treated with these same chemicals, which allowed the built-up coating in old lead pipes to be stripped away, thereby allowing high levels of lead to leach into the water.

[Jjamh]

Oh bunny muffin. Can't undo that.

[trichcycler]

is treatment decided using the current toxicity of the water used. If the water was a clean source would it require the same aggressive chemicals as the dirty water did to make it as safe?

 

That water has been the butt of toxic jokes among fishermen since I was a kid. don't swim, don't drink are good warning signs.

The St Clair River also sports signs up and down stating  "Swim at Your Own Risk". Folks think that's a drowning warning, HUH!  NOT!

Both water ways are chocked full of fish with lesions and parasites and bubbled skin and stink diseases. "Do Not Eat" is a common dnr warning there.  I'd avoid them at al costs.  This country has shat on our beautiful water abundance and now we're realizing the payment. Might be a reason for the obvious dumbification of our populace.  Get the lead out!  Major cities nationwide are shaking in their shoes while this gets sorted. Marysville water has almost the same lead content as Flint, and many other cities in MI and more.

 

strange how the bottled water corps are thriving with this, and they get their water from the same sources.

[Restorium2]

I think it's important to keep the story straight and to the point;

 

The Flint emergency manager, State appointed, decided to save around $100 a day by not adding the chemicals that protect the pipes from being compromised to the point of discharging lead into the water. 

 

At some point along the way they sent untreated water down the pipes that had Legionella Virus in it and 9 people died. 

[Restorium2]

Flint wasn't having any water problems. They were having financial problems. Michigan Governor Snyder decided it was better to step in and take over for an elected official rather than help the ELECTED mayor make ends meet like they have to do now.

 

The emergency manager appointed by Michigan Governor Snyder decided that a good place to find savings was to totally change up the water system that was working fine at the time. It might have been a good idea if implemented properly. But the emergency manager did not hire the qualified people to make the switch. So they just pretended they knew what they were doing and poisoned and killed people. The damage is massive. The toll will be in the billions of dollars and effect the health of tens of thousands of people for generations. The mistake was the biggest financial and health mistake in Michigan history and it's all because of an unconstitutional move by Michigan Governor Snyder.

[Dr. Bob]

We are approving the B-21 at 21.4 Billion Dollars to bomb an enemy we will never have.  

 

I think it is time our leadership reassess their priorities and start looking at infrastructure rather than the military.  Furthermore our number one defense priority should be energy independence.  Reopen the auto factories in Flint and Detroit to build affordable wind turbines, solar collectors.  Make both cities the centers for research into alternative energy and conservation the the well employed workers will provide the tax base for infrastructure.

 

Just a couple of personal thoughts-

 

Dr. Bob

[+Malamute]

Flint wasn't having any water problems. They were having financial problems. Michigan Governor Snyder decided it was better to step in and take over for an elected official rather than help the ELECTED mayor make ends meet like they have to do now.

 

The emergency manager appointed by Michigan Governor Snyder decided that a good place to find savings was to totally change up the water system that was working fine at the time. It might have been a good idea if implemented properly. But the emergency manager did not hire the qualified people to make the switch. So they just pretended they knew what they were doing and poisoned and killed people. The damage is massive. The toll will be in the billions of dollars and effect the health of tens of thousands of people for generations. The mistake was the biggest financial and health mistake in Michigan history and it's all because of an unconstitutional move by Michigan Governor Snyder.

 

 

..... and the Republican Legislature of Michigan who overrode the will of the people in a Statewide vote to not allow for the Emergency Manager law to exist. The republicans, all of them, backhandedly, gave Governor Snyder the power to make the above mistakes you speak of.

[solabeirtan]

Their is something much deeper underlying the decisions that were made in the swath of economically sanctioned attacks on democracy in our state. It is an updated version of Vulture Capitalism.  

 

Rotten running out of scapegoats: Video 

[t-pain]

yeah but he fails at running a business and hires his buddies to run it instead of qualified individuals.

 

we've heard a lot about mdeq. whats going on in the mdhhs part? just who are nick lyons and eden wells?

[Restorium2]

Amazing how this all ends up right back at Michigan Governor Rick Snyders feet. I've never before seen such a clear case of negligence resulting in such massive damages to people and property that can be pinned so clearly on a governor and a legislature. It's unprecedented. 

[solabeirtan]

yeah but he fails at running a business and hires his buddies to run it instead of qualified individuals.

 

we've heard a lot about mdeq. whats going on in the mdhhs part? just who are nick lyons and eden wells?

 

Nick Lyons is a bean counter who heads the MDHHS a byproduct of the former DHS and DCH which the MMA initially came under prior to Rottens rampage across the state and which eventually among other things landed us under LARA. Some of the casualties of this consolidation included the elimination of the

 Michigan Surgeon General, instituted by our former Gov J. Granholm as well as hundreds of jobs from MDCH and MDHS. In his testimony here at the House Ways and Means Committee he touts their administrations "River of Opportunity" concept. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by solabeirtan