The Agony Of Defeat - What Now?

[Hayduke]

no offense Resto, I love ya, but 25% as a block will never happen in this session like you suggest.  We could not do it on hb 4834 and that bill sucked.  Dream on... in the Senate the Republicans have a super majority, and in the House it is closer and more conservative than last session, which makes Democrats sometimes join them to please their powerful constituency (sic)... They mustered 3/4 on hb 4834 and hb 4851 quite easily.  No doubt they can do it again to save the public and the little children... calling your representitive does have value, I agree, but it is minimal compared to the pull of their caucus.  That sets assignments, garnishes donations, and calls virtually every shot... take it to the bank...

 

Wild Bill, some think 5104 is more passable than 4271.... but the Sheriff's objections had a bunch of weight.  In the work groups waaay more time has been spent on 4271 but I think that is because 5104 will do well as is... time will tell... many theories abound... for me it sometimes is like watching a table tennis match... 

[bobandtorey]

no offense Resto, I love ya, but 25% as a block will never happen in this session like you suggest.  We could not do it on hb 4834 and that bill sucked.  Dream on... in the Senate the Republicans have a super majority, and in the House it is closer and more conservative than last session, which makes Democrats sometimes join them to please their powerful constituency (sic)... They mustered 3/4 on hb 4834 and hb 4851 quite easily.  No doubt they can do it again to save the public and the little children... calling your representitive does have value, I agree, but it is minimal compared to the pull of their caucus.  That sets assignments, garnishes donations, and calls virtually every shot... take it to the bank...

 

Wild Bill, some think 5104 is more passable than 4271.... but the Sheriff's objections had a bunch of weight.  In the work groups waaay more time has been spent on 4271 but I think that is because 5104 will do well as is... time will tell... many theories abound... for me it sometimes is like watching a table tennis match... 

Thanks for working so hard for us all 

[Restorium2]

no offense Resto, I love ya, but 25% as a block will never happen in this session like you suggest.  We could not do it on hb 4834 and that bill sucked.  Dream on... in the Senate the Republicans have a super majority, and in the House it is closer and more conservative than last session, which makes Democrats sometimes join them to please their powerful constituency (sic)... They mustered 3/4 on hb 4834 and hb 4851 quite easily.  No doubt they can do it again to save the public and the little children... calling your representitive does have value, I agree, but it is minimal compared to the pull of their caucus.  That sets assignments, garnishes donations, and calls virtually every shot... take it to the bank...

 

Wild Bill, some think 5104 is more passable than 4271.... but the Sheriff's objections had a bunch of weight.  In the work groups waaay more time has been spent on 4271 but I think that is because 5104 will do well as is... time will tell... many theories abound... for me it sometimes is like watching a table tennis match... 

This isn't a 'voting block' type situation. I was thinking more in a asymmetrical way. Like a death of a ten thousand cuts from ten thousand informed patients with ten thousand different ideas on how use their legislator's fear against these bills. 

If you didn't want the Act opened. If you saw what they want to turn these bills into, terrible tools to restrict the Act we have. If you want to make sure they don't get the tools they want to destroy what we have been enjoying, home growing. Then you get creative and call your rep with a well thought out idea how you can scare their pants off by showing them the votes they will lose if they get caught voting YES for a POT STORE. When your opponent out numbers you 3 to 1 you don't run straight at them from outside their circle you get them from within. 

Just remember we know their prize is killing home grows any way they can and this is their only way to do that this session.

[phaquetoo]

I've seen very little on this site about supporting 5104 it's all about 4271. Most here are apparently more concerned about making money than about patients access to non smokable meds.

 

Very disappointing.

Im with you bro, we need medibles and oils back, people dont like to smoke anything any longer this isnt the 50's 60's and 70's you dont see people smoking like we did back than, most of us older smokers have c.o.p.d and would like to eat our mm or take capsules and them capsules do not do me any good unless they are filled with oil!

 

I would have no problem with 1oz

 

=16 oz's of medibles

 

= 7 grms of gasious form (oil)

 

=72 fluid oz's of liquid (tinctures,topical, etc)

 

but I guess I would much rather them not open the law at all and leo stop busting pt's and c.g's once the are shown a card.

 

thats my 2 cnts

 

Peace

[Restorium2]

I'm good with those conversion factors as well. But what good is that going to do us if you can't grow at home? Everyone I know who has bought oil at the dispensary tells me they like it but can't afford it. It's just a 'treat' for them to try out once or twice. No way anyone on a budget can use it regularly unless they grow their own. 

[Restorium2]

The current definition obviously includes oil and other preparations of leaf and flower, are we ignoring that just because the COA has comprehension issues?

 

We do have a very clean case right now with 0.5 grams of oil and zero disqualifying factors. They left his flower because he had a medical marijuana card, but said he couldn't have concentrates. He is being prosecuted for misdemeanor possession of marijuana in Livingston County District Court.

We have a lot better chance moving forward with this case then asking the cops if we can have oil made from what we grew ourselves. And that is brutally honest and NO ONE can argue against that in good faith. 

Those conversions that we have seen in the bill are just meant to cover what you had to buy at the dispensary, which they made from their own grows.

Home grows are a huge mess in the eyes of law enforcement. Getting rid of home grows starts the clean up process. It's like sweeping the mess into piles they can keep a closer eye on an eventually totally control. Having all these small grows across the state is an asymmetrical battle we are winning and they know it. 

[medmanmike]

The current definition obviously includes oil and other preparations of leaf and flower, are we ignoring that just because the COA has comprehension issues?

 

We do have a very clean case right now with 0.5 grams of oil and zero disqualifying factors. They left his flower because he had a medical marijuana card, but said he couldn't have concentrates. He is being prosecuted for misdemeanor possession of marijuana in Livingston County District Court.

Zap, tell us more about this case.

[Restorium2]

Just sent $25 as a way to show how real I think this is compared to asking cops for favors. We need to take what is ours. 

[Hayduke]

I Am going to amp you guys up to try matts bill again. I will post about it, SO MUCH that you will do it just to shut me up.

 

Wait till I fire up the desk top, and hit YA with post I can spell check, and not have to type with my thumbs.

 

Seriously! I will get yall, amped.

 

Your just feeling defeated right now.

 

But really, so 4271 and 5401 weren't meant to be.

 

MAYBE becouse this is what is suppose to really happen. Matt Abels Bill.

 

Shoot he already wrote it, and HYPED it some what! So if it reserved from the dead. It's already got a head start!

 

Let's be straight on Matt Abel's Bill... wtf is it?  I know he ran an initiative campaign that failed miserably, was not financed properly, and led folks to believe that he was the "man" on the issue at hand.  That is just plain ole wrong.  He still has no money, no organization, and no time to do this correctly.  Can he lend a hand and participate?  Yes, certainly, for sure...

 

Should he lead us into the abyss again for the greater glory of Cannabis Counsel and Matthew Abel?  No freakin way...

 

Once some group or groups saves up $1,000,000 for a legalization campaign we can talk again....  And by the way, the polling just done regarding the voting public in Michigan in re legalization, fell short of the needed 58% to have a fighting chance at the ballot.

 

And please post what Matthew has written... let's take a realistic look....

[Hayduke]

Capn... 4271 and 5104 are not dead by any means... and there is no Matt Abel language in them.... 

 

wake up my man, the bills are not dead, I repeat again....

[t-pain]

It is really that basic. They raided his house

i think medman wants to know why they raided the house if hes legit.

 

anonymous tip perhapse?

 

oh well.

[slipstar059]

"We don't need to reinvent the wheel" California has had their law in place since 96. No mention of dispensaries or collectives in their law, cities decide whether or not to allow dispensaries/plant count.

 

If they want to stop the black market, tax, and regulate, they should legalize, and leave medical cannabis, as-is.

Edited December 27, 2014 by slipstar059

[+Malamute]

Well, that isn't exactly correct.

 

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_0401-0450/sb_420_bill_20031012_chaptered.html

 

 California passed another law SB 420 in like 2003 aye. Collectives and Co-ops etc.

 

 And generally, California really only has an affirmative defense and they put up guidelines in which to avoid arrest now(kinda).

[bobandtorey]

The current definition obviously includes oil and other preparations of leaf and flower, are we ignoring that just because the COA has comprehension issues?

 

We do have a very clean case right now with 0.5 grams of oil and zero disqualifying factors. They left his flower because he had a medical marijuana card, but said he couldn't have concentrates. He is being prosecuted for misdemeanor possession of marijuana in Livingston County District Court.

Oh Boy Livingston County 

 

 Theirs Not a good Judge their imho

[bobandtorey]

Let's be straight on Matt Abel's Bill... wtf is it?  I know he ran an initiative campaign that failed miserably, was not financed properly, and led folks to believe that he was the "man" on the issue at hand.  That is just plain ole wrong.  He still has no money, no organization, and no time to do this correctly.  Can he lend a hand and participate?  Yes, certainly, for sure...

 

Should he lead us into the abyss again for the greater glory of Cannabis Counsel and Matthew Abel?  No freakin way...

 

Once some group or groups saves up $1,000,000 for a legalization campaign we can talk again....  And by the way, the polling just done regarding the voting public in Michigan in re legalization, fell short of the needed 58% to have a fighting chance at the ballot.

 

And please post what Matthew has written... let's take a realistic look....

I was hoping it would have been over 60% and have been waiting for that thanks 

 

But theirs one more coming out in Jan ?

[slipstar059]

Once some group or groups saves up $1,000,000 for a legalization campaign we can talk again.... And by the way, the polling just done regarding the voting public in Michigan in re legalization, fell short of the needed 58% to have a fighting chance at the ballot.

 

And please post what Matthew has written... let's take a realistic look....

I don't know about Abel I haven't been that interested in legalization, but polling in Oregon only showed 48% support, with 35% saying no and the rest undecided. They passed measure 91, and allocated the taxes from it, to the police, and education.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the opponents to marijuana just plain don't believe in it as a medicine, and don't want it around. It's listed on cancer.gov people it's not annectodal anymore.

 

The same people that voted for medical, would vote for recreational. If your scared of pot, your not going to be open to it at all.

If you have had any experience with it, you know it's not the bogey monster, just a demonized plant that some people use, and others don't.

 

I've been watching growers in Oregon start with a handful of plants in the basement. To becoming full contributing members of society, and owning businesses they can be proud of.

 

There are hundreds of microbrews in this state, and a ton of DUI's, and alcoholics, and nobody is trying to shut them all down.

 

We should be following Oregons footsteps in medical and if people want it, recreational.

 

If the legislature wants votes on the tax hike they should put a cannabis measure together that Michigan can vote on, along with the roads bill. Couldn't they legalize recreational, and split the taxes, between roads, education and law enforcement?

[slipstar059]

Please watch the first 3 minutes of the Russ Bellville show to see the shining endorsement given by sheriff John Urquhart from King County Washington.

Watch the rest to see the debate in Oregon over legalization.

Skip to 34:00 in to see a Dr lie through his teeth about medible deaths in Colorado. He was forced to post a retraction in the local paper, days after the debate.

Edited December 28, 2014 by slipstar059

[Wild Bill]

My experience in the states of California, Oregon and Colorado is that they all have a fairly large number of citizens with a liberal or even hippie mentality.

 

Our largest voting block in Michigan at the present time seems to be geriatric Calvinist hayshakers out to save the world from godless diversity.

[BirdHunter]

The current definition obviously includes oil and other preparations of leaf and flower, are we ignoring that just because the COA has comprehension issues?

 

We do have a very clean case right now with 0.5 grams of oil and zero disqualifying factors. They left his flower because he had a medical marijuana card, but said he couldn't have concentrates. He is being prosecuted for misdemeanor possession of marijuana in Livingston County District Court.

How "clean"? Solid on all 3 prongs of section 8? If yes, then it's really no help on the concentrates front because the case will be a dismissal. If no, then still no help the affirmative defense will be denied, and any appeals will be about section 8 defects. So explain the end game here. How do you eventually get the MSC to rule on concentrates via this pathway? I don't see any section 4 path due to Carothers. That argument is settled. Edited December 28, 2014 by BirdHunter

[+Malamute]

1 COA case is not "settled". :-)

[bobandtorey]

I Wonder witch one it might be ? 

 

Am thinking 

[Indigro]

My experience in the states of California, Oregon and Colorado is that they all have a fairly large number of citizens with a liberal or even hippie mentality.

 

Our largest voting block in Michigan at the present time seems to be geriatric Calvinist hayshakers out to save the world from godless diversity.

I'm a west coast guy... cali/or as a kid, worked in or/wa/ca, and did a stint in nv/co. Totally different vibe from this place, totally. Hate to have to say it, but even the cops are more progressive... you could even say some are the 'good guys'/decent, reasonable people. Different mindset, attitudes, vibe.

 

Will say this though, the d has a hustle to it that is very unique, and kinda cool. I like it for that.

[t-pain]

1 COA case is not "settled". :-)

 

we just have to convince that lawyer to file another appeal to the msc with better questions.

[Restorium2]

I'm a west coast guy... cali/or as a kid, worked in or/wa/ca, and did a stint in nv/co. Totally different vibe from this place, totally. Hate to have to say it, but even the cops are more progressive... you could even say some are the 'good guys'/decent, reasonable people. Different mindset, attitudes, vibe.

 

Will say this though, the d has a hustle to it that is very unique, and kinda cool. I like it for that.

The good part is that we always follow the west. Might take quite a few years to get there. It shows up in our big cities first. 

[BirdHunter]

we just have to convince that lawyer to file another appeal to the msc with better questions.

Then there is hope? I was under the impression the MSC's refusal to hear Caruthers settled the concentrates issue as being outside section 4. I'd be very pleased to be mistaken on this account!